Bought a Honda S2000 - Where do I stand?
Discussion
Hi guys,
I've recently bought a Honda S2000 from a Porsche main dealer in East London. The car came with a 3-month warranty.
Before the sale, the car 'apparently' went through a safety check performed by the dealer, as well as an MOT which was supplied by the dealer, however carried out by another garage. Nothing came up whatsoever on either.
Within a week of purchasing the car I had a service carried out by Honda - which turned out to be major @ £420. Now within this service the list of problems started. Honda listed all the problems which are as follows,
- Brake pads 20%
- NSF brake binding
- OSF drop link is worn
- Rear tyres 3mm (78% worn)
- A/C Condensor badly worn
- Tested and clutch is slipping new clutch needed
I took the report away and carried out a lot of the work by a local garage. (bar clutch, A/C) I also had to pay to have the locking wheel nuts removed (£80) as they were well and truly 'set' into the wheel.
Now I've passed the tipping point, a tapping noise has developed from the engine of the car. I've taken it to my local Honda dealer (hasn't taken it apart) however their guessing its a spun rod bearing. I've looked at videos and threads on youtube and the metallic tapping noise is unfortunately very similar. It may be possible its a timing chain knocking (which I'm still praying for). Both components are covered under the warranty.
I've gone up to this point without going back to the dealer I've purchased from, but this is likely to be a pretty big, and expensive job especially if any other components are damaged. The warranty supplied with the car hasn't yet been claimed on, however liability is capped to £1,000, which is unlikely to cover the engine problem. Obviously I'm not using the car until this issue is resolved.
Where do I stand with the dealer, the car is obviously sold as seen, however it appears to be very evident that none of the safety checks were performed on the car, and the MOT was not done legitimately. From checking the MOT history online the drop link came up on the previous two MOT's, yet didn't on this one - a week later it was flagged by Honda's check.
I've approached the dealer, and been offered a 'trackday experience' in their cars as a gesture of good will - although this obviously doesn't even begin to sort this potentially huge problem.
I've requested that after claiming through the warranty insurance that any costs over £1000 are covered by the dealer on the basis that safety checks evidently were not performed correctly, and had they been and the issues which are flagged would have prevented me from buying the car in the first place. I'm just awaiting a callback from them tomorrow.
To me the car has been sold with a faulty motor, and it doesn't look good on the dealer part at all - especially being who they are. What are your opinions - should I try to pursue claiming back costs of the repair bill?
I've recently bought a Honda S2000 from a Porsche main dealer in East London. The car came with a 3-month warranty.
Before the sale, the car 'apparently' went through a safety check performed by the dealer, as well as an MOT which was supplied by the dealer, however carried out by another garage. Nothing came up whatsoever on either.
Within a week of purchasing the car I had a service carried out by Honda - which turned out to be major @ £420. Now within this service the list of problems started. Honda listed all the problems which are as follows,
- Brake pads 20%
- NSF brake binding
- OSF drop link is worn
- Rear tyres 3mm (78% worn)
- A/C Condensor badly worn
- Tested and clutch is slipping new clutch needed
I took the report away and carried out a lot of the work by a local garage. (bar clutch, A/C) I also had to pay to have the locking wheel nuts removed (£80) as they were well and truly 'set' into the wheel.
Now I've passed the tipping point, a tapping noise has developed from the engine of the car. I've taken it to my local Honda dealer (hasn't taken it apart) however their guessing its a spun rod bearing. I've looked at videos and threads on youtube and the metallic tapping noise is unfortunately very similar. It may be possible its a timing chain knocking (which I'm still praying for). Both components are covered under the warranty.
I've gone up to this point without going back to the dealer I've purchased from, but this is likely to be a pretty big, and expensive job especially if any other components are damaged. The warranty supplied with the car hasn't yet been claimed on, however liability is capped to £1,000, which is unlikely to cover the engine problem. Obviously I'm not using the car until this issue is resolved.
Where do I stand with the dealer, the car is obviously sold as seen, however it appears to be very evident that none of the safety checks were performed on the car, and the MOT was not done legitimately. From checking the MOT history online the drop link came up on the previous two MOT's, yet didn't on this one - a week later it was flagged by Honda's check.
I've approached the dealer, and been offered a 'trackday experience' in their cars as a gesture of good will - although this obviously doesn't even begin to sort this potentially huge problem.
I've requested that after claiming through the warranty insurance that any costs over £1000 are covered by the dealer on the basis that safety checks evidently were not performed correctly, and had they been and the issues which are flagged would have prevented me from buying the car in the first place. I'm just awaiting a callback from them tomorrow.
To me the car has been sold with a faulty motor, and it doesn't look good on the dealer part at all - especially being who they are. What are your opinions - should I try to pursue claiming back costs of the repair bill?
Edited by kxaddict on Tuesday 17th April 19:04
crocodile tears said:
"I also had to pay to have the locking wheel nuts removed (£80) as they were well and truly 'set' into the wheel. "
??????
Not sure how to describe, the wheels are fairly deep so standard tools to remove locking wheel nuts wouldn't work. The key wasn't supplied with the car so they had to be removed by other means. Either way it wasn't a straightforward standard £20 to remove a set job. ??????
Had I got a puncture on the way home from the garage I would have been f**d.
if it was bought from a dealer under UK law the minimum warranty that has to be offered is (cant remember which) either 6 months or a year. It doesnt matter what they tell you, That is the law and your consumer right. They should be aware of this and they are liable to repair. If they wont demand to return the vehicle for a full refund. They might try to get out of it but get it all in writing and look up the relevant legislation. Its worth doing a few hours research for.
rereading your post- it seems that they are offering you the trackday as a bribe, they are defo aware of this law! they are hoping you wont dig too deep!
rereading your post- it seems that they are offering you the trackday as a bribe, they are defo aware of this law! they are hoping you wont dig too deep!
james280779 said:
if it was bought from a dealer under UK law the minimum warranty that has to be offered is (cant remember which) either 6 months or a year. It doesnt matter what they tell you, That is the law and your consumer right. They should be aware of this and they are liable to repair. If they wont demand to return the vehicle for a full refund. They might try to get out of it but get it all in writing and look up the relevant legislation. Its worth doing a few hours research for.
rereading your post- it seems that they are offering you the trackday as a bribe, they are defo aware of this law! they are hoping you wont dig too deep!
Exactly my first thought when it was offered. The dealer certainly isn't some 'backstreet' dealer either. rereading your post- it seems that they are offering you the trackday as a bribe, they are defo aware of this law! they are hoping you wont dig too deep!
I'd love it to just be the TCT but unfortunately the tapping seems to be a bit more heavy and metallic, different from the TCT noise.
A cut and paste from consumer rights website under the second hand cars catagory!
Demanding a Repair or Replacement
If a car is faulty, the buyer has up to six months after date of purchase in which to reject the vehicle. You can demand a repair or a replacement, unless a replacement would cause "disproportionate or significant inconvenience" to the dealer - such as when a repair might be just as good/effective as a replacement or if the defect is minor - then a price reduction may be more appropriate.
The dealer has to prove the car was of satisfactory quality when sold, so there is no need for an independent car inspection. Put your concerns in writing to the dealer and give any additional evidence to support the problems.
Demanding a Repair or Replacement
If a car is faulty, the buyer has up to six months after date of purchase in which to reject the vehicle. You can demand a repair or a replacement, unless a replacement would cause "disproportionate or significant inconvenience" to the dealer - such as when a repair might be just as good/effective as a replacement or if the defect is minor - then a price reduction may be more appropriate.
The dealer has to prove the car was of satisfactory quality when sold, so there is no need for an independent car inspection. Put your concerns in writing to the dealer and give any additional evidence to support the problems.
You have already made the biggest mistake.
You purchased the car - it had faults - why on earth did you not take it back to the dealer you purchased it from??
Letting another garage take a look, repair this but not that is now going to make things more difficult.
Take the car back to where you purchased it and demand a refund. Under the sale of goods act it sounds like it is not fit for the purpose intended.
If they kick up a fuss go to trading standards.
You purchased the car - it had faults - why on earth did you not take it back to the dealer you purchased it from??
Letting another garage take a look, repair this but not that is now going to make things more difficult.
Take the car back to where you purchased it and demand a refund. Under the sale of goods act it sounds like it is not fit for the purpose intended.
If they kick up a fuss go to trading standards.
A bit late for this now, but with regards to the brakes needing replaced: when my Dad bought his M3 he found out a couple of weeks later that the discs and pads were both very worn. He went back to BMW and told them that he wanted them replaced free of charge on the grounds that the car had a safety check carried out before the sale and, had the braked failed under heavy load for example, the dealer would have had some answering to do.
Right enough, BMW were happy enough to do it
Right enough, BMW were happy enough to do it
These warranties the dealers supply are an utter red herring. Dealers have to supply a certain warranty under SOGA so palm it off to these third party insurers who deal with it. They have an excess and aren't worth the hassle. All the original list I would say is unfortunately just items I would expect from a second hand car. Wear and tear would be exempt even under SOGA in regard that the car is fit for age, milage and price. All those items wear so I don't see how it would be claimable. Worn does not mean unsafe or unacceptable second hand if they are designed to wear.
A main bearing or timing chain would be considered by the manufacturer to be a 'for life' item. I'd look up SOGA, then write to the dealer and tell them you want it fixed and if they want to try and claim some of it back through the warenty they are welcome but your contract is with them.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandr...
A main bearing or timing chain would be considered by the manufacturer to be a 'for life' item. I'd look up SOGA, then write to the dealer and tell them you want it fixed and if they want to try and claim some of it back through the warenty they are welcome but your contract is with them.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandr...
Thats a shame about the brake discs and pads, and the slipping clutch - they are some of the easier things you can check. As for the tyres, well, you really should have checked those!
You may well struggle to get items liks the above sorted, as they could be classed as consumables. However it is certainly worth a try.
The S2000 clutch is a strange one though, so worth a second opinion. (It really doesn't like being abused)
You may well struggle to get items liks the above sorted, as they could be classed as consumables. However it is certainly worth a try.
The S2000 clutch is a strange one though, so worth a second opinion. (It really doesn't like being abused)
Most of that list in the first post are wear and tear items.
The brakes are worn.
Right. But do they have enough life to pass an MOT, if so then they are safe.
Same with the tyres.
AC worn – but it’s working right?
Drop link is worn – that’s worn, not failed.
You’ve bought a second hand car.
Lots of stuff is worn but not failing.
That’s just the way it goes.
I’m sure the seats and the floor mats show signs of wear too.
You could have checked most of that before you bought the car.
£80 to get the wheels removed?
Why didn’t you go back to the dealer and insist they sort it out.
Or, better yet, check the wheel key was with the car when you bought it.
You didn’t say how old the car is or how many miles it’s done.
Perhaps on a 2 or 3 year old car from a main dealer under some ‘good as new’ scheme you might have cause for complaint.
But, from a generic used car dealer and (I’m guessing) an older car, then it’s just the way it goes.
I don’t want to sound harsh, but I think you need to revisit your expectations from second hand car dealers.
I think you put too much faith in them to sell you an excellent car, and don’t see the reality that they often just take in a car, wash it, then sell it on.
The brakes are worn.
Right. But do they have enough life to pass an MOT, if so then they are safe.
Same with the tyres.
AC worn – but it’s working right?
Drop link is worn – that’s worn, not failed.
You’ve bought a second hand car.
Lots of stuff is worn but not failing.
That’s just the way it goes.
I’m sure the seats and the floor mats show signs of wear too.
You could have checked most of that before you bought the car.
£80 to get the wheels removed?
Why didn’t you go back to the dealer and insist they sort it out.
Or, better yet, check the wheel key was with the car when you bought it.
You didn’t say how old the car is or how many miles it’s done.
Perhaps on a 2 or 3 year old car from a main dealer under some ‘good as new’ scheme you might have cause for complaint.
But, from a generic used car dealer and (I’m guessing) an older car, then it’s just the way it goes.
I don’t want to sound harsh, but I think you need to revisit your expectations from second hand car dealers.
I think you put too much faith in them to sell you an excellent car, and don’t see the reality that they often just take in a car, wash it, then sell it on.
Snowboy said:
Most of that list in the first post are wear and tear items.
The brakes are worn.
Right. But do they have enough life to pass an MOT, if so then they are safe.
Same with the tyres.
AC worn – but it’s working right?
Drop link is worn – that’s worn, not failed.
You’ve bought a second hand car.
Lots of stuff is worn but not failing.
That’s just the way it goes.
I’m sure the seats and the floor mats show signs of wear too.
You could have checked most of that before you bought the car.
£80 to get the wheels removed?
Why didn’t you go back to the dealer and insist they sort it out.
Or, better yet, check the wheel key was with the car when you bought it.
You didn’t say how old the car is or how many miles it’s done.
Perhaps on a 2 or 3 year old car from a main dealer under some ‘good as new’ scheme you might have cause for complaint.
But, from a generic used car dealer and (I’m guessing) an older car, then it’s just the way it goes.
I don’t want to sound harsh, but I think you need to revisit your expectations from second hand car dealers.
I think you put too much faith in them to sell you an excellent car, and don’t see the reality that they often just take in a car, wash it, then sell it on.
At last a post I can agree withThe brakes are worn.
Right. But do they have enough life to pass an MOT, if so then they are safe.
Same with the tyres.
AC worn – but it’s working right?
Drop link is worn – that’s worn, not failed.
You’ve bought a second hand car.
Lots of stuff is worn but not failing.
That’s just the way it goes.
I’m sure the seats and the floor mats show signs of wear too.
You could have checked most of that before you bought the car.
£80 to get the wheels removed?
Why didn’t you go back to the dealer and insist they sort it out.
Or, better yet, check the wheel key was with the car when you bought it.
You didn’t say how old the car is or how many miles it’s done.
Perhaps on a 2 or 3 year old car from a main dealer under some ‘good as new’ scheme you might have cause for complaint.
But, from a generic used car dealer and (I’m guessing) an older car, then it’s just the way it goes.
I don’t want to sound harsh, but I think you need to revisit your expectations from second hand car dealers.
I think you put too much faith in them to sell you an excellent car, and don’t see the reality that they often just take in a car, wash it, then sell it on.
OP - Next time you buy a car you will do it with eyes open rather than closed
Personally, what I do when buying a sports car, especially higher powered cars, is to set aside at least £1k to get it serviced (no matter what the garage or person you bought it from say about how good it is) by people who know the marque inside out. Brakes and handling are of upmost importance - if I am in doubt, I change the disks and pads at the very least - and new dampers and poly bushing is a good idea, especially if the car is a few years old. I want to be sure that, when driving on the twisties, if anything bad happens, then it's my fault and not the car.
The engine problem you have would worry me, though....
The engine problem you have would worry me, though....
Warning – generalisations ahead.
On an S2000 I would take a rough guess that if the engine has between 30 and 90k miles then it’s the timing chain tensioner making a bad noise.
It’s a relatively easy fix.
If it’s got over 100k then the big end might be going.
It all depends on how the cars been treated by previous owners.
On an S2000 I would take a rough guess that if the engine has between 30 and 90k miles then it’s the timing chain tensioner making a bad noise.
It’s a relatively easy fix.
If it’s got over 100k then the big end might be going.
It all depends on how the cars been treated by previous owners.
Snowboy said:
Most of that list in the first post are wear and tear items.
The brakes are worn.
Right. But do they have enough life to pass an MOT, if so then they are safe.
Same with the tyres.
AC worn – but it’s working right?
Drop link is worn – that’s worn, not failed.
You’ve bought a second hand car.
Lots of stuff is worn but not failing.
That’s just the way it goes.
I’m sure the seats and the floor mats show signs of wear too.
You could have checked most of that before you bought the car.
£80 to get the wheels removed?
Why didn’t you go back to the dealer and insist they sort it out.
Or, better yet, check the wheel key was with the car when you bought it.
You didn’t say how old the car is or how many miles it’s done.
Perhaps on a 2 or 3 year old car from a main dealer under some ‘good as new’ scheme you might have cause for complaint.
But, from a generic used car dealer and (I’m guessing) an older car, then it’s just the way it goes.
I don’t want to sound harsh, but I think you need to revisit your expectations from second hand car dealers.
I think you put too much faith in them to sell you an excellent car, and don’t see the reality that they often just take in a car, wash it, then sell it on.
Spot on, sounds like the garage that did the service are touting for a bit of work.The brakes are worn.
Right. But do they have enough life to pass an MOT, if so then they are safe.
Same with the tyres.
AC worn – but it’s working right?
Drop link is worn – that’s worn, not failed.
You’ve bought a second hand car.
Lots of stuff is worn but not failing.
That’s just the way it goes.
I’m sure the seats and the floor mats show signs of wear too.
You could have checked most of that before you bought the car.
£80 to get the wheels removed?
Why didn’t you go back to the dealer and insist they sort it out.
Or, better yet, check the wheel key was with the car when you bought it.
You didn’t say how old the car is or how many miles it’s done.
Perhaps on a 2 or 3 year old car from a main dealer under some ‘good as new’ scheme you might have cause for complaint.
But, from a generic used car dealer and (I’m guessing) an older car, then it’s just the way it goes.
I don’t want to sound harsh, but I think you need to revisit your expectations from second hand car dealers.
I think you put too much faith in them to sell you an excellent car, and don’t see the reality that they often just take in a car, wash it, then sell it on.
mercfunder said:
Spot on, sounds like the garage that did the service are touting for a bit of work.
+1Close friend recently bought his mums old 2005 Civic and gave it to local London Honda dealer for service , mot and cambelt change - c£500.
His bill when he picked it up was an eyewatering £1,700 (after discount) !!!
Apparently the clutch was 'worn' and so were the brakes. New discs and pads and clutch on a 40k mile car that does less than 5k pa.
I did explain to him that just because things are worn they don't HAVE to be replaced. Particularly the clutch - if it was worn to the point of needing replacing even a person with zero interest in cars would be aware that something was wrong with it.
Honda dealers - be aware of them looking for extra work !!
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff