Full suspension / not?
Discussion
I've decided i need something to do; so after being inspired by videos on youtube and remembering how much fun it is to ride like a madman down hills I'm looking to start downhill / trail / cross-country biking.
I'm not looking to do it competitively - just a casual Sunday thing.
Obviously I'll be taking it easy at first, getting a fell for the bike, getting the hang of jumps etc but eventually ill be looking to ride quite hard.
Are there any advantages to full suspension over the front suspension only hard trails for this type of riding? (aside from the comfort). The price difference between hard trail and full suspension is remarkable! if I'm honest i don't have over £1k for a bike at the moment! I reckon ~£700 is my upper most limit; ideally less.
I want something tough that wont fall apart once you go over a few rocks or if you land a bit heavy after getting some air.
After looking at other posts I'm browsing Pauls cycles at the moment. There are loads of bikes to choose from in my price bracket and I'm lost!
Any advice would be really appreciated.
Thanks in advance
I'm not looking to do it competitively - just a casual Sunday thing.
Obviously I'll be taking it easy at first, getting a fell for the bike, getting the hang of jumps etc but eventually ill be looking to ride quite hard.
Are there any advantages to full suspension over the front suspension only hard trails for this type of riding? (aside from the comfort). The price difference between hard trail and full suspension is remarkable! if I'm honest i don't have over £1k for a bike at the moment! I reckon ~£700 is my upper most limit; ideally less.
I want something tough that wont fall apart once you go over a few rocks or if you land a bit heavy after getting some air.
After looking at other posts I'm browsing Pauls cycles at the moment. There are loads of bikes to choose from in my price bracket and I'm lost!
Any advice would be really appreciated.
Thanks in advance
The good riders I know (one of them being Dan Hart) all started on hard-tails and mostly do their training on them. A hard-tail forces you to have to read the terrain, to pick your lines more carefully, and to climb with more skill.
When you do then make the transition to a full-sus you will be a faster and more skilful rider, and less likely to ride beyond your limits. Full-sus bikes make the rider lazy, and raise the speed at which you run out of talent. You also get less bike for your money.
My advice would be a good second hand hard-tail for 6 months / year and if you're still keen, splash out on a full-sus toy.
Get some training too. Better to start without bad habits than have to unlearn them later.
When you do then make the transition to a full-sus you will be a faster and more skilful rider, and less likely to ride beyond your limits. Full-sus bikes make the rider lazy, and raise the speed at which you run out of talent. You also get less bike for your money.
My advice would be a good second hand hard-tail for 6 months / year and if you're still keen, splash out on a full-sus toy.
Get some training too. Better to start without bad habits than have to unlearn them later.
i wouldnt buy a new full suspension bike at rrp for less than £1500. it sounds snobbish but basically, its all about the fork and rear chock and how good the dampers and rebound are.
on cheap bikes they are simple coil springs and unlikely to have much range of adjustable, the sensation on the trail is much like being on a bouncy castle. when you hit a rock hard the coil wants to rebound as quickly as possible, if you are descending a rocky path the suspension doesnt offer any control or stability. the higher end stuff uses air pressure/oil dampers and have far more control and rebound adjustment.
for £700 have a look at the Canondale Trail SL5 as a starter for ten, you cant go that wrong with it, if you are prepared to go to £850 have a look at the Orange G3.
on cheap bikes they are simple coil springs and unlikely to have much range of adjustable, the sensation on the trail is much like being on a bouncy castle. when you hit a rock hard the coil wants to rebound as quickly as possible, if you are descending a rocky path the suspension doesnt offer any control or stability. the higher end stuff uses air pressure/oil dampers and have far more control and rebound adjustment.
for £700 have a look at the Canondale Trail SL5 as a starter for ten, you cant go that wrong with it, if you are prepared to go to £850 have a look at the Orange G3.
As above, ride a HT for a year and you'll gain so much more skill than a year on a FS. Yes they're faster on the rough stuff, but they flatter the rider.
And again as someone has said, at £700 you'd be foolish to buy a FS, a new one anyway, it'll be crap.
If you do fancy having a go at some of the wilder stuff a "long travel hardtail" would be perfect. look for a main brand (Specilized, GT, Kona, Trek, Giant, Orange etc) Hardtail with 120mm to 140mm travel forks you wont go far wrong, I'm not up-to-speed on all the ranges so can't recomended anything in particular.
Cove Stiffee would be my choice of long travel Hardtail, but frames are about £500 so won't fit you budget, you might find a bargain in the classifieds or ebay.
And again as someone has said, at £700 you'd be foolish to buy a FS, a new one anyway, it'll be crap.
If you do fancy having a go at some of the wilder stuff a "long travel hardtail" would be perfect. look for a main brand (Specilized, GT, Kona, Trek, Giant, Orange etc) Hardtail with 120mm to 140mm travel forks you wont go far wrong, I'm not up-to-speed on all the ranges so can't recomended anything in particular.
Cove Stiffee would be my choice of long travel Hardtail, but frames are about £500 so won't fit you budget, you might find a bargain in the classifieds or ebay.
2 years ago I was in the same situation and opted for a hardtail and glad I did you really feel the terrain therefor pick your lines more carefully. I got my first full sus bike 2 weeks ago, a Lapierre zesty 314 and I feel I can almost do it justice after 2 years on my hardtail. Kept the hardtail aswell though I couldn't get rid of it love that bike. Hardtail is a Trek 6300 btw, highly recommended (after upgrading the gash coil fork)
One thing to add to my post is to consider the terrain that is local to you. I live close to Dalby which has some great routes for all grades, but it means a short car journey. My local - pedal from my back door up onto the hills - trails tend to be less technical and steep. My FS bike is boring on these trails, whereas the hard-tail on skinny race tyres with V-Brakes is still exciting to pedal as I have to very carefully pick the route rather than just riding over everything. Thus I use my HT bike far more than the FS as it's easier and more fun to ride from my back door than add an hour round trip by car.
I'm convinced it's why you see so many DH and heavy AM bikes for sale each year as people get sick of the hassle factor of driving to the venue, pushing up the hills, or finding up-lift days.
I'm convinced it's why you see so many DH and heavy AM bikes for sale each year as people get sick of the hassle factor of driving to the venue, pushing up the hills, or finding up-lift days.
rhinochopig said:
The good riders I know (one of them being Dan Hart) all started on hard-tails and mostly do their training on them. A hard-tail forces you to have to read the terrain, to pick your lines more carefully, and to climb with more skill.
When you do then make the transition to a full-sus you will be a faster and more skilful rider, and less likely to ride beyond your limits. Full-sus bikes make the rider lazy, and raise the speed at which you run out of talent. You also get less bike for your money.
My advice would be a good second hand hard-tail for 6 months / year and if you're still keen, splash out on a full-sus toy.
Get some training too. Better to start without bad habits than have to unlearn them later.
Really good question by the OP and this is a really good answer, wish I'd have asked the same question when buying.When you do then make the transition to a full-sus you will be a faster and more skilful rider, and less likely to ride beyond your limits. Full-sus bikes make the rider lazy, and raise the speed at which you run out of talent. You also get less bike for your money.
My advice would be a good second hand hard-tail for 6 months / year and if you're still keen, splash out on a full-sus toy.
Get some training too. Better to start without bad habits than have to unlearn them later.
I began riding in November and wanted to enter a 24 hour race in January (initially the only reason I took up mountain biking) I brought a second hard tail and used it after the event I still loved mountain biking and had entered a couple of other races. I was obsessed about the fact I thought I'd be better on a full sus.
Went out brought a 2011 Giant Anthem X3 new from pedal on down from 2295 to 1295, however reality has kicked in and I'm far quicker on my second hand hard tail, however needless to say great fun coming down hill, in hind sight I'd have upgraded my 2007 bike raced on it and brought an Orange 5 Pro for fun, hate to admit that!
I will persist with the Giant though it is great fun just trying to stay up with the hardtails uphill is soul destroying.
pablo said:
i wouldnt buy a new full suspension bike at rrp for less than £1500. it sounds snobbish but basically, its all about the fork and rear chock and how good the dampers and rebound are.
on cheap bikes they are simple coil springs and unlikely to have much range of adjustable, the sensation on the trail is much like being on a bouncy castle. when you hit a rock hard the coil wants to rebound as quickly as possible, if you are descending a rocky path the suspension doesnt offer any control or stability. the higher end stuff uses air pressure/oil dampers and have far more control and rebound adjustment.
for £700 have a look at the Canondale Trail SL5 as a starter for ten, you cant go that wrong with it, if you are prepared to go to £850 have a look at the Orange G3.
Not relevant to the OP's budjet but how come the Giant trance x4 rrp £1250 keeps winning awards if bikes under £1500 are crap? including mbr's ful suspension bike of the year?on cheap bikes they are simple coil springs and unlikely to have much range of adjustable, the sensation on the trail is much like being on a bouncy castle. when you hit a rock hard the coil wants to rebound as quickly as possible, if you are descending a rocky path the suspension doesnt offer any control or stability. the higher end stuff uses air pressure/oil dampers and have far more control and rebound adjustment.
for £700 have a look at the Canondale Trail SL5 as a starter for ten, you cant go that wrong with it, if you are prepared to go to £850 have a look at the Orange G3.
I bought one last week as an upgrade from a 2009 rockhopper and have chucked it round a couple of black trails so far and it seems absolutely great!
If you want a full sus bike that will take abuse then check out a 2nd hand Kona Stinky 08/09 or newer, you get a hell of a bike for the money and you can slowly upgrade it from there. Be warned though that if you want to ride it up hill you'll want a double ring on the front. Its got a long seat tube so you can raise the seat nice and high if you want to crank up those hills.
rhinochopig said:
One thing to add to my post is to consider the terrain that is local to you.
Well i live in North London so the terrain it's... well... tarmac haha! I don't mind a drive though as I'll spend the whole day doing it as opposed to a short blast then cycle home.I'm fairly local to a few forests which i can lark about in but i don't know of any dedicated trails around here. My parents have a place in Norfolk which is probably more likely to have something close by.
If anyone knows any trails / tracks within... i don't know.. 60 miles? of either place I'm all ears.
Going by whats been said it 100% I'm going for a hard tail.
Pablo suggested the Cannondale SL5 and i do like the look of it ( http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b... ) has a healthy discount too so it comes in well under budget. A few reviews I've read suggests it is a really good bike to start with. Top of the pile at the moment - strangely the SL4 and SL3 are more expensive?
Another one I like is the Kona Caldera ( http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b... ) 2009 model but is that reason to avoid?
The last two contenders are the GT Avalanche 3.0 / 4.0
Thanks for the help so far guys - if you would cast your eyes over the shortlist i would appreciate it (and add any you feel are worth a shout) Has a look at hte orange G3 but i really cant go that high on price
OMNIO said:
Pablo suggested the Cannondale SL5 and i do like the look of it ( http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b... ) has a healthy discount too so it comes in well under budget. A few reviews I've read suggests it is a really good bike to start with. Top of the pile at the moment - strangely the SL4 and SL3 are more expensive?
Edited by exgtt on Thursday 19th April 00:34
For £700 I'd be looking at a hardtail, and not for any of the 'making you a better rider' reason (ride what you like now not for later) but because there will be too many compromises on a FS at that price. A decent FS frame and shock will add £500 or so to a hardtail price.
So for a £700 hardtail I'd be looking at one of 3 options :
- Second hand. Scour ebay and the mtb forums.
- Last season deals from the likes of Pauls Cycles
- The budget (often German) brands such as Canyon or Cube.
I combined the last 2 at the end of last year and got an £1100 2011 Cube LTD Race for £780. Fox forks, XT gears, Formula brakes, sub 12kg etc etc
So for a £700 hardtail I'd be looking at one of 3 options :
- Second hand. Scour ebay and the mtb forums.
- Last season deals from the likes of Pauls Cycles
- The budget (often German) brands such as Canyon or Cube.
I combined the last 2 at the end of last year and got an £1100 2011 Cube LTD Race for £780. Fox forks, XT gears, Formula brakes, sub 12kg etc etc
exgtt said:
The SL range start at sl5 (cable disks brakes, £450ish), going to sl1 @ about £1k. I recently bought an sl3 which i think is the sweet spot in the SL range
Thanks. I've looked on Paul's cycles and they have it for £560. In your opinion is it worth the £200 extra over the sl5 or £100 over the sl4?Edited by exgtt on Thursday 19th April 00:34
What's the weight of it?
Thanks.
Canyon and cube both make excellent bikes and are hard to fault for the money (I looked very hard at a Nerve AM).
I switched from a FS to a hardtail last winter. I wasn't riding big enough to need the susser, and I was also getting lazy and just straightlining stuff.
What you really need is both. And a BMX. And a road bike. And a single speed. And something to commute to work on....
I switched from a FS to a hardtail last winter. I wasn't riding big enough to need the susser, and I was also getting lazy and just straightlining stuff.
What you really need is both. And a BMX. And a road bike. And a single speed. And something to commute to work on....
Mr E said:
Canyon and cube both make excellent bikes and are hard to fault for the money (I looked very hard at a Nerve AM).
I switched from a FS to a hardtail last winter. I wasn't riding big enough to need the susser, and I was also getting lazy and just straightlining stuff.
What you really need is both. And a BMX. And a road bike. And a single speed. And something to commute to work on....
I switched from a FS to a hardtail last winter. I wasn't riding big enough to need the susser, and I was also getting lazy and just straightlining stuff.
What you really need is both. And a BMX. And a road bike. And a single speed. And something to commute to work on....
but you forgot MTB capable tandem for scaring your mates on the back of.pablo said:
Canyon/Cube = "budget" brands?
do you know anything about bicycles? canyon sell direct and cut out the middlemen hence htey are cheaper comapred to berands with a big store presence.
Cube have a lot of stockists and area comparable i nterms of valuer for money with the others.
Budget in that they are cheaper than most for what you get. I bought one, I ride one. do you know anything about bicycles? canyon sell direct and cut out the middlemen hence htey are cheaper comapred to berands with a big store presence.
Cube have a lot of stockists and area comparable i nterms of valuer for money with the others.
They are certainly not premium when you compare them to Trek, Giant etc which are arguable less value biased.
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