Leaving the scene (and giving the bird!)
Discussion
Evening folks,
My brother has been summoned to magistrates court in a couple of weeks charged with leaving the scene (he thought they had just touched wing mirrors - they claim he damaged their paintwork) and obscene behaviour (or something similiar - he gave the finger when the other driver beeped at him)
Anyone had any experience of this and what is the likely outcome?
Cheers for any info
My brother has been summoned to magistrates court in a couple of weeks charged with leaving the scene (he thought they had just touched wing mirrors - they claim he damaged their paintwork) and obscene behaviour (or something similiar - he gave the finger when the other driver beeped at him)
Anyone had any experience of this and what is the likely outcome?
Cheers for any info
Street
A number of years ago I 'touched mirrors' on a country road, I know I was the one on my side of the road but really doesn't matter. We stopped and agreed to disagree with regard to who was right/wrong (only damage was his broken mirror - glass only), very amicable he agreed not much to be gained from blocking the road so he would pay for mirror.
When I tried to report this to local station (CYA time) they refused to record the incident, only my persistance (and getting the name of the clerk) resulted in it being logged. His opinion was that as there was no injury the police are not intersted yet if someone decided to 'be funny' I could have been charged with failure to stop.
The only reason I insisted was that this happened to a mate of mine a couple of years earlier (touched bumpers) other guy reported the incident, result 3 points and fine.
There appears to be no consistency, we don't want you to report minor incidents but if you don't you could be charged with leaving the scene!
Any views?
Cheers
A number of years ago I 'touched mirrors' on a country road, I know I was the one on my side of the road but really doesn't matter. We stopped and agreed to disagree with regard to who was right/wrong (only damage was his broken mirror - glass only), very amicable he agreed not much to be gained from blocking the road so he would pay for mirror.
When I tried to report this to local station (CYA time) they refused to record the incident, only my persistance (and getting the name of the clerk) resulted in it being logged. His opinion was that as there was no injury the police are not intersted yet if someone decided to 'be funny' I could have been charged with failure to stop.
The only reason I insisted was that this happened to a mate of mine a couple of years earlier (touched bumpers) other guy reported the incident, result 3 points and fine.
There appears to be no consistency, we don't want you to report minor incidents but if you don't you could be charged with leaving the scene!
Any views?
Cheers
Hi jenkinsd
Firstly, all credit to you mate for stopping following your mirror v mirror incident. All too one driver continues leaving the other driver with a broken mirror.
As for recordable accidents, the policy is very much like you said, ie: the police are not interested if it's a knock for knock and nobody is injured.
If someone IS injured the police should record the accident.
If you have a mirror to mirror accident, like the one you explain, and then stop to exchange details there is no need to then report it to the police station. However, if you didn't stop (for whatever reason), you MUST report it to the police station as soon as practicable and in any event within 24 hours.
If the person on the desk refuses to take the complaint. Don't fret. Just make sure you record somewhere the persons name (be it a police officer or civilian desk clerk), the time/date you went to the station and save it should it be needed in the future. If nothing comes from it, so be it. However, if the other person claims you have left the scene and never reported it, you'll have proof that you did.
Hope that helps.
Street
Firstly, all credit to you mate for stopping following your mirror v mirror incident. All too one driver continues leaving the other driver with a broken mirror.
As for recordable accidents, the policy is very much like you said, ie: the police are not interested if it's a knock for knock and nobody is injured.
If someone IS injured the police should record the accident.
If you have a mirror to mirror accident, like the one you explain, and then stop to exchange details there is no need to then report it to the police station. However, if you didn't stop (for whatever reason), you MUST report it to the police station as soon as practicable and in any event within 24 hours.
If the person on the desk refuses to take the complaint. Don't fret. Just make sure you record somewhere the persons name (be it a police officer or civilian desk clerk), the time/date you went to the station and save it should it be needed in the future. If nothing comes from it, so be it. However, if the other person claims you have left the scene and never reported it, you'll have proof that you did.
Hope that helps.
Street
Jeez, now that's what I call service 
Thanks for the confirmation, we didn't exchange details at the time, just a quick conversation, but as I said it was CYA time (bit of a grey area), my advice to whoever reads this thread is to follow your advice Street.
Once again thanks
Jenks
PS Always quality posts particularly taking into account your initial 'difficulties'
.
Thanks for the confirmation, we didn't exchange details at the time, just a quick conversation, but as I said it was CYA time (bit of a grey area), my advice to whoever reads this thread is to follow your advice Street.
Once again thanks
Jenks
PS Always quality posts particularly taking into account your initial 'difficulties'
. My brother freely admits he was in the wrong by not stopping and giving the finger and I'm sure that after this he will have learnt a lesson. His licence was previously unblemished apart from a speeding charge which is just about to expire.
So in a case like his where there was little or no damage, he should be looking at around 3 points and a fine?
So in a case like his where there was little or no damage, he should be looking at around 3 points and a fine?
Hello! I'm the silly monkey who my brother refers to.
The basic scenario is it's an afternoon drive home from work. I've just cleared a roundabout and now held up with two car in front in a file of traffic as some people are using a pedestrian crossing. A car comes along my offside dressed slightly further forward than me; with an angle to cut into the flow of traffic. The way is cleared the cars in front of me proceed on and I follow.
All I can say is, I know I moved when the car in front started to do so, don't know what the car on my offside was doing.
The wing mirrors clipped, the car on the offside sounded his horn and yes - knee jerk reaction - he got the bird from me. He dressed in behind me in the flow of traffic.
My offside mirror was in place, showing the side view as normal. Through the rear I could see the other party and their nearside mirror in place.
The stretch of road concerned, is quite busy. I was on it for maybe half a mile, two sets of traffic lights that both held up on red in a file of traffic, before turning off down a sideroad and heading on. At which point, the other party kept on driving and didn't follow.
Upon arrival at home, I checked over the offside and found noticed a few light "cat" scratches to the wing mirror housing. They could have been done at any time, car park by persons with a trolly or walking past the car.
That night, a couple of police turns up at my door, and asked for details.
They asked, did the other party signal for you to stop? Nope.
They said I'd damaged the other car, but I don't understand how that is possible. From standing start, in built up traffic moving forward a couple of feet and having nothing to show for it on mine.
Time stepping for a moment.... The day after, I informed my insurance company of what had happened. Pursuing it again a week, a fortnight and a month later and they hadn't been contacted, besides the police now having those details. It is now several months after the fact and nothing has been raised with insurance. So, I'm lost as to what level of damage is being talked about.
Back to the court hearing, and this is where all the legal speak gets rather confusing.
There are three charges being listed on the summons document.
1) Failure to stop - section 170(4) of Road Traffic Act 1988, and schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 as amended by the Road Traffic Act 1991.
2) Failre to give details or report it (?) - section 170 Road Traffic Act amd schedule 2 as above.
3) "You with intent to cause harerassment, alarm or distress did display writing sign or other visible representation which was threatening, abusive or insulting thereby causing that person or another person harassment alarm or distress. Contrary to section 4(A)(1) and (5) of the public order act 1986.
I am in full respect that ignorance of the law is no defence in the eyes of the law.
I didn't realise there was need to stop in a situation where I could see there was no damage done. I wasn't pursued by the other party and they didn't make effort to flag me down.
The second is direct follow on from the above, I didn't realise so didn't act on it.
The third has no excuse. A childish knee jerk reaction to someone sounding the horn when they were what had felt was in the wrong.
The magistrates court is asking me to complete a form on if I'm guilty / not guilty of this.
Boiling it down - I drove away from an "accident" that I didn't know was considered an accident, and therefore should have stopped to do something about it. I didn't - so think I'm guilty. Certainly am guilty of giving the other car the bird.
Based on this, what do you think is the outcome please?
As my brother mentioned - there are 3 points on my license for an SP50 in late '01.
In a court, do they have all the information to hand? my statement to the police - the other parties and so on?
Will I be asked to speak, answer questions or will by admiting guilt on the form, it is a walk in - confirm who I am, acknowledge the charges and hear the court verdict?
Thanks for your input.
The basic scenario is it's an afternoon drive home from work. I've just cleared a roundabout and now held up with two car in front in a file of traffic as some people are using a pedestrian crossing. A car comes along my offside dressed slightly further forward than me; with an angle to cut into the flow of traffic. The way is cleared the cars in front of me proceed on and I follow.
All I can say is, I know I moved when the car in front started to do so, don't know what the car on my offside was doing.
The wing mirrors clipped, the car on the offside sounded his horn and yes - knee jerk reaction - he got the bird from me. He dressed in behind me in the flow of traffic.
My offside mirror was in place, showing the side view as normal. Through the rear I could see the other party and their nearside mirror in place.
The stretch of road concerned, is quite busy. I was on it for maybe half a mile, two sets of traffic lights that both held up on red in a file of traffic, before turning off down a sideroad and heading on. At which point, the other party kept on driving and didn't follow.
Upon arrival at home, I checked over the offside and found noticed a few light "cat" scratches to the wing mirror housing. They could have been done at any time, car park by persons with a trolly or walking past the car.
That night, a couple of police turns up at my door, and asked for details.
They asked, did the other party signal for you to stop? Nope.
They said I'd damaged the other car, but I don't understand how that is possible. From standing start, in built up traffic moving forward a couple of feet and having nothing to show for it on mine.
Time stepping for a moment.... The day after, I informed my insurance company of what had happened. Pursuing it again a week, a fortnight and a month later and they hadn't been contacted, besides the police now having those details. It is now several months after the fact and nothing has been raised with insurance. So, I'm lost as to what level of damage is being talked about.
Back to the court hearing, and this is where all the legal speak gets rather confusing.
There are three charges being listed on the summons document.
1) Failure to stop - section 170(4) of Road Traffic Act 1988, and schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 as amended by the Road Traffic Act 1991.
2) Failre to give details or report it (?) - section 170 Road Traffic Act amd schedule 2 as above.
3) "You with intent to cause harerassment, alarm or distress did display writing sign or other visible representation which was threatening, abusive or insulting thereby causing that person or another person harassment alarm or distress. Contrary to section 4(A)(1) and (5) of the public order act 1986.
I am in full respect that ignorance of the law is no defence in the eyes of the law.
I didn't realise there was need to stop in a situation where I could see there was no damage done. I wasn't pursued by the other party and they didn't make effort to flag me down.
The second is direct follow on from the above, I didn't realise so didn't act on it.
The third has no excuse. A childish knee jerk reaction to someone sounding the horn when they were what had felt was in the wrong.
The magistrates court is asking me to complete a form on if I'm guilty / not guilty of this.
Boiling it down - I drove away from an "accident" that I didn't know was considered an accident, and therefore should have stopped to do something about it. I didn't - so think I'm guilty. Certainly am guilty of giving the other car the bird.
Based on this, what do you think is the outcome please?
As my brother mentioned - there are 3 points on my license for an SP50 in late '01.
In a court, do they have all the information to hand? my statement to the police - the other parties and so on?
Will I be asked to speak, answer questions or will by admiting guilt on the form, it is a walk in - confirm who I am, acknowledge the charges and hear the court verdict?
Thanks for your input.
I'm surprised the BiB showed any interest. A similar thing happened to us, we reported it and 5 months later the BiB phoned to arrange to come and take a description of the people concerned as they were suspected of being involved in another incident. 2 months later I got a letter to say since it was over 6 months since the complaint was made they couldn't take it any further.
The Cambs police aren't interested in anything it seems and are grossly inefficient when they are. I even wrote a complaint to the Chief Constable and got a typewritten note from his secretary to say 'tough shit, he's gone golfing and doesn't want to be bothered' or something similar
>> Edited by apache on Sunday 25th July 16:32
The Cambs police aren't interested in anything it seems and are grossly inefficient when they are. I even wrote a complaint to the Chief Constable and got a typewritten note from his secretary to say 'tough shit, he's gone golfing and doesn't want to be bothered' or something similar
>> Edited by apache on Sunday 25th July 16:32
I don't know the law, or the sections of the law the summons refers to.
In simple terms, I'm guessing I'm guilty on all three counts?
As for the finger; reflecting over it time and again, it was a childish aggresive response to the sounding of the horn in a childish agressive manner. Two wrongs don't make a right. I should know better.
I'm also having difficulty in coming to terms with the situation.
Folks have mentioned it could be 5 to 10 points. There has also been mentions of fines and so on.
Speeding on the motorway, got me ticking off from the officers on how silly it is do it, £60 fine and 3 points on my license.
How can two cars clipping wing mirrors and so on be considered worse than the speeding offence?
Are folks saying that the very minimum the magistrate will assign is 5 points on the licenese and some fine, or can they waiver it and do their own thing - such as lesser points, or just a fine?
In simple terms, I'm guessing I'm guilty on all three counts?
As for the finger; reflecting over it time and again, it was a childish aggresive response to the sounding of the horn in a childish agressive manner. Two wrongs don't make a right. I should know better.
I'm also having difficulty in coming to terms with the situation.
Folks have mentioned it could be 5 to 10 points. There has also been mentions of fines and so on.
Speeding on the motorway, got me ticking off from the officers on how silly it is do it, £60 fine and 3 points on my license.
How can two cars clipping wing mirrors and so on be considered worse than the speeding offence?
Are folks saying that the very minimum the magistrate will assign is 5 points on the licenese and some fine, or can they waiver it and do their own thing - such as lesser points, or just a fine?
Dont worry too much mate...It's not the end of the world...think of all the money you'll save using public transport...
Only pulling your leg, you'll be ok. Just be honest and tell them the truth. Unfortunately, the minimal cost of the accident does little to lessen the seriousness of not stopping. You can only plead that you thought that NO damage had been caused and that's why you didn't stop.
Keep us informed and we'll keep our fingers crossed for you...
Street
Only pulling your leg, you'll be ok. Just be honest and tell them the truth. Unfortunately, the minimal cost of the accident does little to lessen the seriousness of not stopping. You can only plead that you thought that NO damage had been caused and that's why you didn't stop.
Keep us informed and we'll keep our fingers crossed for you...
Street
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