alternative batteries
Discussion
Rather than continue to hi-jack the LS3 thread I'd rather start another up to try and find out the necesary.
I'm looking at alternative race type batteries as a space saving option to help give Mel a bit more legroom in the passenger footwell. I feel that realistically I would need 50 A/hr minimum capacity for leaving the car armed and unused for a few days whilst touring and I also would not want to instal the battery in the boot. I have worked out that a couple of Red Top batteries will give an extra 3" legroom in the footwell and the capacity required so things look good so far
My only doubt Is that I'm sure I've heard somewhere that this kind of battery doesn't like being left connected to a battery maintainance system,so what do you do when not in use at home as I would still like the car armed when kept in the garage at home??
I'm looking at alternative race type batteries as a space saving option to help give Mel a bit more legroom in the passenger footwell. I feel that realistically I would need 50 A/hr minimum capacity for leaving the car armed and unused for a few days whilst touring and I also would not want to instal the battery in the boot. I have worked out that a couple of Red Top batteries will give an extra 3" legroom in the footwell and the capacity required so things look good so far
My only doubt Is that I'm sure I've heard somewhere that this kind of battery doesn't like being left connected to a battery maintainance system,so what do you do when not in use at home as I would still like the car armed when kept in the garage at home??
I think this is the best place for the battery as per this thread.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
You might find this thread interesting Mike
Clicky
The Varley Red Top 25 works on a day-to-day basis but I doubt it would survive a couple of days running the alarm. But you can see the amount of extra legroom you get. The outside measurements of the ali box are the same as the old battery box.
I keep mine on an accumate when its in the garage.
Clicky
The Varley Red Top 25 works on a day-to-day basis but I doubt it would survive a couple of days running the alarm. But you can see the amount of extra legroom you get. The outside measurements of the ali box are the same as the old battery box.
I keep mine on an accumate when its in the garage.
I've got a Red Top in the Tuscan Challenge car. Left it for 6 months over winter without any charging, started first time with plenty of current. However, these batteries do not like constant small current draw. The best way to keep them conditioned is to fit a battery isolator, but the alarm will be disconnected.
Edited by leerdam23 on Wednesday 25th April 09:18
Thanks for the replies gents. Looks like the slow discharge from alarm could be a problem then 
I expect that's what I had heard and was getting it mixed up with trickle charging! I'm guessing the oydesy is the same as the red top in respect of the slow discharge issue? I don't think I can stretch to 50A/hrs of Li battery!!
I expect that's what I had heard and was getting it mixed up with trickle charging! I'm guessing the oydesy is the same as the red top in respect of the slow discharge issue? I don't think I can stretch to 50A/hrs of Li battery!! This is from the Odyessey web site www.odyessey.com click on literature then technical manuals lots of pdf tech maunals to download on all battery topics
Parasitic loads
With the proliferation of more and more electronic equipment in cars, trucks, motorcycles and powersports equipment, the phenomenon of parasitic loads is becoming a serious problem. Parasitic loads are small currents, typically of the order of a few milliamps (mA) that the battery has to deliver continuously. Retaining memories and operating security systems are common examples of parasitic drains on batteries in modern systems. On the surface it would seem that such small loads would not be a factor in the overall scheme of things. However, since parasitic loads can be applied on a long-term basis (weeks or months is not uncommon), the cumulative amphours (Ah) extracted from the battery can be significant. For example, a 10mA draw on a motorcycle battery will discharge it by 0.24Ah per day. If left unchecked for 30 days, that small 10mA parasitic load will discharge a 20Ah battery by 7.2Ah – a 36% depth of discharge (DOD). For reliable engine cranking, an ODYSSEY battery needs to have at least 70% of its capacity available. In other words, no more than 30% of the battery’s capacity can be discharged for good starting performance. Thus battery capacity and magnitude of the parasitic drain are needed to estimate the maximum number of days the load can be tolerated before the battery’s cranking performance is potentially comprimised.
Parasitic loads
With the proliferation of more and more electronic equipment in cars, trucks, motorcycles and powersports equipment, the phenomenon of parasitic loads is becoming a serious problem. Parasitic loads are small currents, typically of the order of a few milliamps (mA) that the battery has to deliver continuously. Retaining memories and operating security systems are common examples of parasitic drains on batteries in modern systems. On the surface it would seem that such small loads would not be a factor in the overall scheme of things. However, since parasitic loads can be applied on a long-term basis (weeks or months is not uncommon), the cumulative amphours (Ah) extracted from the battery can be significant. For example, a 10mA draw on a motorcycle battery will discharge it by 0.24Ah per day. If left unchecked for 30 days, that small 10mA parasitic load will discharge a 20Ah battery by 7.2Ah – a 36% depth of discharge (DOD). For reliable engine cranking, an ODYSSEY battery needs to have at least 70% of its capacity available. In other words, no more than 30% of the battery’s capacity can be discharged for good starting performance. Thus battery capacity and magnitude of the parasitic drain are needed to estimate the maximum number of days the load can be tolerated before the battery’s cranking performance is potentially comprimised.
These Varley Red Top race batteries are good, I have had this one in my Griff for 3yr+ without any starting issues (seen in picture during a ECU & loom upgrade), the car has also done three euro tours with the same 100% starting reliability.
These are also less than half the thickness of the original battery - Ideal for improving passenger leg room which was the main reason I installed one.
These are also less than half the thickness of the original battery - Ideal for improving passenger leg room which was the main reason I installed one.
I am looking at a new battery for my griff and would like a smaller and lighter one. The varley red top 30 looks ok but I would prefer a smaller one. I recall seeing that someone has tried a varley red top 25. If so has it worked properly or have there been problems with it draining or cranking power?
Thanks. Jes
Thanks. Jes
Most of the smaller ones will still have enough power to crank your griff over, certainly the Red Top or Oddysey 25's will. It all comes down to how long you want to leave the car without maintaining the battery between uses really as this is where racing type batteries are not so good. I use two Odyssey 30's combined and they could be left for several weeks between uses without maintaining.
Jes. I used a Red Top 15 for several years, started the car fine even with the standard lucus motor, it was even happier with one of the more modern geared ones ( I guess you will have done that already as they are a lot lighter). If you are doing a two day meeting and you have to turn off a few times in the start line queue it could get a bit challenged by the end of the second day.
I now use a Red Top25 which seems to cope very well, Just in case I fitted an Anderson connector to save embarrassment in the top paddock but have not needed it in the last two years.
I reduced the parasitic drain (and some weight) after removing removing an old tracker unit from the centre console.
I now use a Red Top25 which seems to cope very well, Just in case I fitted an Anderson connector to save embarrassment in the top paddock but have not needed it in the last two years.
I reduced the parasitic drain (and some weight) after removing removing an old tracker unit from the centre console.
To be honest I don’t use mine much for normal day to day use. I doubt it would last long if you left the lights on or even if you left the door open. If I know I will be driving with the lights on I normally plug in a second red top which fits very nicely in a child’s sandwich box to effectively double the Ah rating. Obviously that comes out when I am trying to get to the top of a hill quicker than you.
I've got a Red Top 25 and it hasn't been a problem with regular use.
I've flattened it a couple of times and its still come back to life after a good charge.
I'm careful about the fans running on. And leaving the lights on is a surefire way to bugger it. Even the interior lights on will flatten it if its left in the garage for a few days without being on the charger. that reminds me, I must change those damned bulbs for LEDs
My car is used often in the summer, less so in Spring and Autumn and tucks its wheels under it and shivvers whenever I open the garage in Winter.
It lives on a trickle charger when its in the garage.
It was certainly one of my better mods as any of my passengers will tell you.
I've flattened it a couple of times and its still come back to life after a good charge.
I'm careful about the fans running on. And leaving the lights on is a surefire way to bugger it. Even the interior lights on will flatten it if its left in the garage for a few days without being on the charger. that reminds me, I must change those damned bulbs for LEDs
My car is used often in the summer, less so in Spring and Autumn and tucks its wheels under it and shivvers whenever I open the garage in Winter.
It lives on a trickle charger when its in the garage.
It was certainly one of my better mods as any of my passengers will tell you.
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