GAZ suspension, any good?

[jackh707]

Hi, looking at GAZ suspension for a caterham, It looks good, and has some dampening adjustment, for around £400. The reason I havn't posted in caterham section is there seems to be a lack of experience towards suspension that dosn't cost over £1000 and nobody seems to fit it.

The car is 20 years old and running on original bilsteins, we are looking for an affordable improvement.

So anybody fitted any? Are they good?

Looking at these... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Four-Caterham-Gaz-adjust...

[Shaun_E]

If you really want adjustable then plenty of people have fitted AVO but, although they work well on a Caterham, there are mixed experiences regarding their quality. The standard Bilsteins are a very good damper and it could be that replacing your old, probably tired, Bilsteins with a new set would be a big improvement. Adjustable doesn't necessarily mean good. Gaz seem pretty popular on other kit cars but the fact they are rarely, if ever, found on a Caterham might tell you something.

[GinG15]

GAZ is located in the low-price segment.

i would never change high quality bilstein´s, correctly valved to caterhams spec. to such a cheap damper.

what is the reason you want to change them, if they are ok..they will be defiately better than any low-price replacement.

if you think they are a bit "tired", try to get them refurbed, instead buying such cheapish ones. i think refurb is the better investment.

Edited by GinG15 on Friday 27th April 14:03

[Furyblade_Lee]

If you want aftermarket adjustible dampers, Traxspax and Protech are worth a look. both companies do single and double adjustible, for around £500.. These are commonly used in kitcar racing, on all marqes, and have performed well. I know non-adjustibles can be good if correctly valved but nothing can properly cover bumpy b-roads and smooth racetracks without being adjustible. You will find too that at least 3 damper manufacturers have been run by the same guy at some point, so I doubt internally they are massively different. But dampers dont last forever so a new set should be a welcome improvement. I went from some 5 year old seized AVOs to Protech alloy single adjustibles, and am pleased with them. I have driven a Nitron equipped R500 Caterham on track at Zolder and 250 miles home, and while awesome I didn't suddenly think " my cheaper Protecs are s***".

Problem with certain forums is, as you say, the owners don't necessarily know or care why things are better, if they cost more they must be, right??

I know of another guy too who found Nitron's aftercare when one broke, to be, erm, somewhat unexpected?

[Tony427]

I've built three Cobras using Gaz suspension units ( 6 each car as used Jag rear axles)and they have all been excellent giving the ability to easily tune and adjust both the damping and the ride height.

After sales was also excellent when I specified a slightly too high spring rate and after a couple of thousand miles requested a different set of front springs. Gaz just asked for the old springs back when they sent the replacements and credited me the value.

Worth a shot I would feel.

Cheers,

Tony

[jason61c]

They're good value for money and are at least the equal to standard new bits direct from caterham, without the huge markup. You've hit the nail on the head about people not being happy unless they're paying over the odd's. Bit like when they buy a caterham

[rhinochopig]

Shaun_E said:

If you really want adjustable then plenty of people have fitted AVO but, although they work well on a Caterham, there are mixed experiences regarding their quality. The standard Bilsteins are a very good damper and it could be that replacing your old, probably tired, Bilsteins with a new set would be a big improvement. Adjustable doesn't necessarily mean good. Gaz seem pretty popular on other kit cars but the fact they are rarely, if ever, found on a Caterham might tell you something.

Avo you say...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Sam_68]

Whilst acknowledging what Lee says (though remember that the damper should only really be used to fine tune transitional handling, so using them to effect major changes in suspension stiffness between track and B-road is crude to say the least!), I'm with GinG15: 'adjustable' does not necessarily mean 'better'.

Unless you know what you are doing and have a clear idea why you want to adjust your car's current behaviour, correctly valved, good quality non-adjustables can be much better (more consistent, better valving, less internal friction) than cheap adjustables like GAZ.

[AdiT]

Sam_68 said:

Whilst acknowledging what Lee says (though remember that the damper should only really be used to fine tune transitional handling, so using them to effect major changes in suspension stiffness between track and B-road is crude to say the least!),...

Who said anything about major changes? Can you explain what elegant yet practical method you'd advise using instead for a car used both track and road?

OP: I've been hapy with my gaz shocks although if I was to replace them I'd probably go for Protech's and get them from Pro-Comp where they'll be valved for a light car and shock-dyno'd to match them up.

[Sam_68]

AdiT said:

Who said anything about major changes?

Nobody, I merely added the comment as a rider, to point out that even if you do have adjustables, you shouldn't be using much of the adjustment.

As it happens, with the cheaper adjustable like GAZ and Spax, the adustment is so coarse that more than one notch either side of optimum will be plenty, if the basic valving is correct in the first place.

I've just seen too many people who've heard somewhere that you should run the dampers soft in the wet and stiff in the dry, who think that means adjusting 4 or 5 clicks either side and end up jacking the car into the bump stops on dry settings and bouncing around like a spacehopper in the wet.

If you've got really good dampers and a well set-up car, you don't need to adjust the basic damping much (if at all) for different conditions. Optimum damping is optimum damping and is matched to the wheel frequency, not the weather or the tarmac!

What you can legitimately use dampers for is fine tuning of transitional handling (turn-in and corner exit), to 'manage' the rate of diagonal weight transfer, but since cheapo dampers like GAZ are only single adjustable (so you can't adjust the low velocity damping separately from the high velocity), any adjustment you make to the low velocity (roll) damping has a negative impact on the high veloicty (ride) damping.

AdiT said:

Can you explain what elegant yet practical method you'd advise using instead for a car used both track and road?

Are adjustable ARB's elegant yet practical enough for you?

Though obviously roll damping will be a compromise with adjustable ARB's unless you use them in conjunction with adjustable dampers ...but then single-adjustable dampers will be a compromise unless you use them in conjunction with adjustable ARB's, so that cuts both ways, and the general consensus is that roll damping is much less critical than ride damping on a well-balanced car.

The 'professionals' would no more think of softening-off the damping for wet conditions without also adjusting the roll stiffness to match than a good engine builder would think of fitting a pair of full race camshafts without also adjusting the jetting of the carburettors.

With this in mind the most practical and elegant solution is probably to keep a separate set of springs and dampers ready to bolt on for the track, if you can afford it... in which case you'll be wanting to up the basic spring rates for the track, with the dampers being valved to suit.

Oh, and if you're using cheap adjustables (or even expensive ones) get them dyno'd: you'll probably be appalled at how inconsistent they are (this is part of the justification that good quality - more consistent - non-adjustables can be much better than cheap adjustables).

Edited by Sam_68 on Saturday 28th April 16:00

[jackh707]

Cheers for the interesting comments. The suspension is pretty awful over bumps at the moment... Even gentle smooth undulations, straightahead from low speed to high speed. But oddly the car feels very happy under load mid corner or accelerating hard.

And there are certainly some decent deals to be had from that eBay shop.

[Josh Smith]

Ive got a set of nearly new avos on the motorsport parts section if interested.

[one eyed mick]

Have used Gaz dampers for a while now ,6/7 years no probs and know of lots of others .As for correct valving etc I believe they will build to your spec ,contact Dave at Dampertech he will have details .Bilstiens, Avo etc I think you pay a premium for the name like lots of other things ,yes pos better quality control etc but some of it is the bling factor . My pers ops!!

[Furyblade_Lee]

Sam, you seem to know your onions on this subject! I take it in the past you have some compettition experience, either as a driver or suspension setup? What sort of motorsport have you been involved in?

[Sam_68]

Furyblade_Lee said:

I take it in the past you have some compettition experience, either as a driver or suspension setup? What sort of motorsport have you been involved in?

Yes, I used to make part of my living doing chassis set-up; mainly hillclimbing and kit cars. Sadly one of the other parts of my living (drawing houses) became far too profitable to spend all my time buggering about with cars.

I've dabbled in hillclimbing as a driver, but I never had the money to take it seriously and in any case I was always more interested in the technical side.

I got into it because I was from Leeds in Yorkshire originally and having bought a copy of the 'Race and Rally Car Source Book' when I was about 9 or 10, I spent most of my summer weekends as a spotty teenager up at Harewood, bothering the late Mr Staniforth with increasingly complicated questions about suspension geometry, which he always bore with great tolerance!

[martindf3]

Sam_68 said:

Yes, I used to make part of my living doing chassis set-up; mainly hillclimbing and kit cars. Sadly one of the other parts of my living (drawing houses) became far too profitable to spend all my time buggering about with cars.

I've dabbled in hillclimbing as a driver, but I never had the money to take it seriously and in any case I was always more interested in the technical side.

I got into it because I was from Leeds in Yorkshire originally and having bought a copy of the 'Race and Rally Car Source Book' when I was about 9 or 10, I spent most of my summer weekends as a spotty teenager up at Harewood, bothering the late Mr Staniforth with increasingly complicated questions about suspension geometry, which he always bore with great tolerance!

I know this is an old post ,But, Just been reading as much information as possible to make a decision on the best dampers on an old Hillclimb Caterham that is minus its dampers and most other parts . To me You are the only one one who has mentioned " Wheel Frequency" .Now I too know about wheel frequency and have run Formula Ford and two Formula three cars . When testing our first F3 car engine cheaply at Three sisters ,I ran into a certain Mr Staniforth ,I started discussing wheel frequency with him . Fascinating to meet and talk to the Maestro . Sadly missed . I want fixed rate bilstien Dampers but they are over £200 a corner and I want to spend as little as possible Regards Martin

[bodgit]

ive used gaz on both kit cars ive owned , got em on the mk midi they are good value and after sales is spot on

[bodgit]

ive used gaz on both kit cars ive owned , got em on the mk midi they are good value and after sales is spot on

[LLantrisant]

ordered some GAZ, incl. coils for my other car: the shocks arrived with the wrong spring seat (1.9"), even i ordered them with springs (2.25")!! had to wait 1 week for receiving the correct spring seat.

i used the car exactly 1 time during winter, where the roads had been wet and still some salt present...the car was washed immediately when arriving at home...but the springs lost around 60% of the powder coating and the yellow galvanizing started corroding.

some other suspension parts, ordered in germany (some galvanized, some powedercoated), which had been fitted at the same time, still look like new.


a mate of mine fitted some GAZ to his Cobra: 2 shocks started leaking after 1 year.

[sam919]

jackh707 said:

The reason I havn't posted in caterham section is there seems to be a lack of experience towards suspension that dosn't cost over £1000 and nobody seems to fit it.



So anybody fitted any? Are they good?

Looking at these... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Four-Caterham-Gaz-adjust...

Perhaps you just need to ask on the forum and be prepared for the bull sh#t that usually follows.

Pro-tech would be my choice, i have used them on bike engine cars and my 300bhp caterham and their a good value shock. As for the pros and cons between adjustable damping and non (bilsteins), for the price of a non adjustable you can get good quality adjustable which means you can have a play if you wish. Certainly it would come in handy if you fancied going out in the wet you can turn open them and soften them up, or if you fancied a track day on a dry track and pushing on you can try stiffening them up. Even in more basic form you can drive on the roads with a soft setting and not worry too much about uneven surfaces etc but stiffen them up as above for the track.

Pro-tech have been supplying most of the NSSCC previous winners with caterhams and one with a Westy XTR2 as well as being used in single seat cars.

I still use them , just had them re-sealed no reason to change as they do work, but whether its worth a change from your shocks that are fine is another matter.