What would you choose?
Discussion
im in the market for a BEC , i have been looking at the MK brand, MNR and MAC, but i also have noticed the Sylva R1OT, obviously not too every ones taste becuause of the rear end etc.
but is there any benefits from choosing a R1ot compared to the other makes? i dont intend to track it, just weekend use.
becuase of the size difference of the r1ot compared to the above would it make any noticable gains in the performance?
thanks
but is there any benefits from choosing a R1ot compared to the other makes? i dont intend to track it, just weekend use.
becuase of the size difference of the r1ot compared to the above would it make any noticable gains in the performance?
thanks
I wouldnt get a BEC solely for the road. I own one, an MK Indy R R1. I use mine predominantly for track although its a 10 plate and fully road legal. I do take it on the road occasionally, usually just to give it a run or shake down the latest repair or modification, but I wouldnt buy one specifically for road use.
They are a bit too frantic, edgy in traffic and noisy to do anything but blast around in. Think of them as either off or on cars, there is no inbetween.
For track though, I wouldnt have anything else. Huge fun for low money.
They are a bit too frantic, edgy in traffic and noisy to do anything but blast around in. Think of them as either off or on cars, there is no inbetween.
For track though, I wouldnt have anything else. Huge fun for low money.
I've got an Mk Indy and think its great, just go look at a few and you'll soon decide.
And about using a BEC as a weekend toy, mines GSXR engined and my friend has an Hayabusa powered westfield, we both use them on the road a fair bit. They're both fine to drive at any pace and economical if you pootle around or savage if you go for it, we both agree theres nothing quite like it. Driven a few car engined ones and they were abit less raw and exciting to drive.
And about using a BEC as a weekend toy, mines GSXR engined and my friend has an Hayabusa powered westfield, we both use them on the road a fair bit. They're both fine to drive at any pace and economical if you pootle around or savage if you go for it, we both agree theres nothing quite like it. Driven a few car engined ones and they were abit less raw and exciting to drive.
I am saying nowt re: bike engines :-)
What I will say is have a look at the Sylva J15/16, it's a nimble R1ot but with a pretty body. I have dirty dreams about one of those, BMC Almond green, silver minilites, White roundels, and a Ford twincam, silver cam covers, with some seriously throaty throttle bodies on..... And they can take bike engines if you wish
What I will say is have a look at the Sylva J15/16, it's a nimble R1ot but with a pretty body. I have dirty dreams about one of those, BMC Almond green, silver minilites, White roundels, and a Ford twincam, silver cam covers, with some seriously throaty throttle bodies on..... And they can take bike engines if you wish
I disagree with the earlier posters. I have a road going BEC and its fine on the roads. Actually its a blast on B roads! What it is not is a grand tourer. If you want a toy to enjoy driving, then BECs are great. If you're looking for a comfy delux cruiser to waft around in, then a BEC would be a buzzy disaster.
mikeveal said:
I disagree with the earlier posters. I have a road going BEC and its fine on the roads. Actually its a blast on B roads! What it is not is a grand tourer. If you want a toy to enjoy driving, then BECs are great. If you're looking for a comfy delux cruiser to waft around in, then a BEC would be a buzzy disaster.
I'd agree with that, although I have done a couple of grand tours and the BEC was great. Just gave extra time to admire the views from the passes while waiting for the CEC's to catch up 
If you want comfort get a Mondeo!OP; I'd go with the R1ot of what you've listed or the J15 (Lee- we don't need to know about your filthy dreams) but it's worth considering Fury's and Pheonix or if you really are set on "sticky-out wheels" then Strikers.
Get yourself to Stoneleigh show next week and have a good look around whats available and try and blag a couple of ride-outs in owners cars.
Furyblade_Lee said:
Big Torquey v-twins have been tried, there is a reason why they are not more popular.
Because in a kit car they're 0.3-4 of a second a lap slower I thought? On twisty tracks they did well though.They would sound awesome. Also no-one has tried one of the new v-twins... i'm sure they'd be at least as quick if not more so?
jason61c said:
Furyblade_Lee said:
Big Torquey v-twins have been tried, there is a reason why they are not more popular.
Because in a kit car they're 0.3-4 of a second a lap slower I thought? On twisty tracks they did well though.They would sound awesome. Also no-one has tried one of the new v-twins... i'm sure they'd be at least as quick if not more so?
The reason they don't work is that, contrary to popular belief, they don't make much more torque than a 4-cylinder bike engine.
For example:
Honda Fireblade - 83 lb.ft (and 175bhp)
Aprilia Tuono R - 86lb.ft (and 134bhp)
Ducati 1098R (with 10% more capacity than the above) - 98.8lb.ft (and 180bhp, though they're probably Italian horses)
That means that in terms of performance they are basically a 'normal' bike engine but without the revs (the Aprilia's peak power is at 'only' 9500rpm, so not dramatically higher than a modern 'car' 16 valve), hence you can't use ridiculously short gearing to mask the lack of torque as you can with a 4-cylinder BEC.
Their advantages in bikes are that the engine represents a greater proportion of the overall weight and it also dictates the frontal area to a greater extent, so a light, narrow V-twin scores quite well. Neither of these advantages are easy to exploit in a BEC, though. For them to start making sense, you'd need to fit them into a very, very light vehicle (much lighter than a typical 'Seven'), otherwise they're bound to feel a bit lacklustre.
Sam_68 said:
I've got one sitting in my shed (Aprilia Tuono R), waiting for me to find the time to start building it into an ultra-lght road legal single-seater.
The reason they don't work is that, contrary to popular belief, they don't make much more torque than a 4-cylinder bike engine.
For example:
Honda Fireblade - 83 lb.ft (and 175bhp)
Aprilia Tuono R - 86lb.ft (and 134bhp)
Ducati 1098R (with 10% more capacity than the above) - 98.8lb.ft (and 180bhp, though they're probably Italian horses)
That means that in terms of performance they are basically a 'normal' bike engine but without the revs (the Aprilia's peak power is at 'only' 9500rpm, so not dramatically higher than a modern 'car' 16 valve), hence you can't use ridiculously short gearing to mask the lack of torque as you can with a 4-cylinder BEC.
Their advantages in bikes are that the engine represents a greater proportion of the overall weight and it also dictates the frontal area to a greater extent, so a light, narrow V-twin scores quite well. Neither of these advantages are easy to exploit in a BEC, though. For them to start making sense, you'd need to fit them into a very, very light vehicle (much lighter than a typical 'Seven'), otherwise they're bound to feel a bit lacklustre.
I know all about their torque output, what you've failed to mention (a rare mistake by yourself The reason they don't work is that, contrary to popular belief, they don't make much more torque than a 4-cylinder bike engine.
For example:
Honda Fireblade - 83 lb.ft (and 175bhp)
Aprilia Tuono R - 86lb.ft (and 134bhp)
Ducati 1098R (with 10% more capacity than the above) - 98.8lb.ft (and 180bhp, though they're probably Italian horses)
That means that in terms of performance they are basically a 'normal' bike engine but without the revs (the Aprilia's peak power is at 'only' 9500rpm, so not dramatically higher than a modern 'car' 16 valve), hence you can't use ridiculously short gearing to mask the lack of torque as you can with a 4-cylinder BEC.
Their advantages in bikes are that the engine represents a greater proportion of the overall weight and it also dictates the frontal area to a greater extent, so a light, narrow V-twin scores quite well. Neither of these advantages are easy to exploit in a BEC, though. For them to start making sense, you'd need to fit them into a very, very light vehicle (much lighter than a typical 'Seven'), otherwise they're bound to feel a bit lacklustre.
) is the wider and lower rpm they make their torque at, where in my head a new engine will show a clean pair of heals to a 4cyl. Nothing wrong with Italian bhp or rpm ranges(think early r1). Also You're comparing a earlier v-twin with a late(er) 4.Edited by jason61c on Saturday 28th April 15:51
jason61c said:
...what you've failed to mention is the wider and lower rpm they make their torque at, where in my head a new engine will show a clean pair of heals to a 4cyl.
It doesn't make much difference: the shorter gearing of 4 cylinder BEC will mean that equal or more torque is available at the wheels for a given road speed than a V-twin, and if you want the more relaxed revs, why not just go for a car engine and get the reliability (and substantially more torque) as well?Sam_68 said:
It doesn't make much difference: the shorter gearing of 4 cylinder BEC will mean that equal or more torque is available at the wheels for a given road speed than a V-twin, and if you want the more relaxed revs, why not just go for a car engine and get the reliability (and substantially more torque) as well?
I've not ridden a modern twin with short gearing, if anything its longer(well feels it!). They tend to give them longer gearing to help the rider with the monster midrange.I used an m3 engine as I wanted a engine that would rev and had a large amount of torque.... next time i'm not sure what i'll use.
As we're on the subject of Riot's and V twins, i think an interesting vehicle would be a very light mid engined layout utilising something like a Moto guzzi V-twin or a BMW boxer. These are longitudinally mounted and are shaft driven. These engines are commonly used in Cycle cars like Pembletons, Trikings and JZR's etc. But as they are shaft drive you could connect them up to a light diff and use them on a 4 wheel vehicle. It could give some interesting styling choices....
Sorry, as you were....
(op, id probably choose a Grinnall Scorpion, but thats due to my unhealthy three wheeler obsession)
Sorry, as you were....
(op, id probably choose a Grinnall Scorpion, but thats due to my unhealthy three wheeler obsession)
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