Pasty March

[martin84]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17851992

Half a million signatures?

Why cant we get this level of public outrage in the case of criminal petrol prices which actually does take real money out of the economy and destroy growth?

fkwits.

[odyssey2200]

You can get as many signatures as you like for what ever cause you like.

Government will still ignore it.

[jurbie]

Or those half a million people could have each chipped in 50pence and they would have got a personal meeting with the PM.

[thinfourth2]

So everyones peronnel tax allowance goes up by about a grand and all i have heard about is fking pasties

I'd love to shove a very very hot pasty up the arse each and everyone of the 2500 idiots that have signed that petition

[EDLT]

Don't you already have to pay VAT on a bag of chips, a pizza or a chinese/indian take-away?

[Shaw Tarse]

EDLT said:

Don't you already have to pay VAT on a bag of chips, a pizza or a chinese/indian take-away?

I think so, if I'm right (highly unlikely) they are sold as hot food, whereas pasties & pies are sold as food that has just been cooked, for people to take away & eat later, when cold. But they can it it when still warm?

[EDLT]

Shaw Tarse said:

EDLT said:

Don't you already have to pay VAT on a bag of chips, a pizza or a chinese/indian take-away?

I think so, if I'm right (highly unlikely) they are sold as hot food, whereas pasties & pies are sold as food that has just been cooked, for people to take away & eat later, when cold. But they can it it when still warm?

I'd rather eat cold pizza than a cold pasty. Maybe PizzaHut should add their name to the petition.

[martin84]

Its worth noting most EU countries apply VAT to all food. Typically between 5 and 9 percent. Most food in the UK has been zero rated for a long time apart from hot food. You pay VAT when you go to McDonalds, Burger King, KFC and Pizza Hut, so I dont see why you shouldnt pay it when you go to Greggs personally.

Greggs by the way are a FTSE 100 company worth almost £800million and I would wager most of the other 99 pay VAT on the things they sell.

[ninja-lewis]

Shaw Tarse said:

I think so, if I'm right (highly unlikely) they are sold as hot food, whereas pasties & pies are sold as food that has just been cooked, for people to take away & eat later, when cold. But they can it it when still warm?

Part of the trouble is it seems some retailers were chancing their luck by arguing that the purpose of heating their food was to improve their appearance or to comply with health and safety regulations, rather than to enable them to be consumed hot. Various legal cases meant the rules were becomingly increasing unclear and prone to legal challenge.

[davepoth]

martin84 said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17851992

Half a million signatures?

Why cant we get this level of public outrage in the case of criminal petrol prices which actually does take real money out of the economy and destroy growth?

fkwits.

Fuel tax makes the price of fuel more predictable and actually helps business in the long run, if you assume that the value of the fuel tax would have to be levied elsewhere.

[martin84]

davepoth said:

Fuel tax makes the price of fuel more predictable and actually helps business in the long run, if you assume that the value of the fuel tax would have to be levied elsewhere.

It only makes the price of fuel more predictable if in times of spiking oil prices they REDUCE THE fkING TAX!!! Then it stabilises the price. Diesel has gone up nearly 15p a litre in the last 18 months, I didn't see that coming, I didn't predict that. The prices arent predictable at all.

The only 'help' it gives to business is they know to not bother investing any money because diesel tax will suck everything up and put them out of business anyway. If you call that 'help' then we'll agree to disagree. The only 'help' it gives to families is they know theres no point trying to get a job because the fuel tax to get to it will soon make going to work pretty pointless.

I dont feel thats 'help.'

[gog]

Here is a better petition --- www.fairfueluk.com/documents/petitionform.pdf

[martin84]

gog said:

Here is a better petition --- www.fairfueluk.com/documents/petitionform.pdf

Fair Fuel UK have done very good work so far but its not having the desired effect. We need a repeat of 2000 but blockading Parliament and every MP's house instead.

[thinfourth2]

So half a million have signed his petition

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/32044

2861 is a funny way to write 500,000

[steveatesh]

davepoth said:

Fuel tax makes the price of fuel more predictable and actually helps business in the long run, if you assume that the value of the fuel tax would have to be levied elsewhere.

I'm curious as to how specifically fuel tax helps business?

[Terminator X]

martin84 said:

It only makes the price of fuel more predictable if in times of spiking oil prices they REDUCE THE fkING TAX!!! Then it stabilises the price. Diesel has gone up nearly 15p a litre in the last 18 months, I didn't see that coming, I didn't predict that. The prices arent predictable at all.

You didn't see it coming?! They will continue to rise ...

TX.

[davepoth]

steveatesh said:

davepoth said:

Fuel tax makes the price of fuel more predictable and actually helps business in the long run, if you assume that the value of the fuel tax would have to be levied elsewhere.

I'm curious as to how specifically fuel tax helps business?

Here goes.

Fuel sells for 20p per litre at the well.

Government A slaps a tax of 80p onto that, making the price £1 per litre at the pump.

Government B doesn't put a tax on fuel at all. Fuel price is 20p at the pump.

Fuel price at the well goes up to 30p. Price in government A's country goes up by 10% to 110p, price in Government B's country goes up 50% to 30p.

If you ran a company where the price of your main raw material was liable to fluctuate by 50% or more in a week, how would you be able to set prices on long term contracts? It'd be extremely difficult. Take a look at what happened in Nigeria earlier in the year to see why massive fluctuations in fuel price, even at a lower price, can cause big problems.

[bitchstewie]

martin84 said:

Why cant we get this level of public outrage in the case of criminal petrol prices which actually does take real money out of the economy and destroy growth?

Because people who eat Gregg's pasties can't afford cars.

[martin84]

davepoth said:

Here goes.

Fuel sells for 20p per litre at the well.

Government A slaps a tax of 80p onto that, making the price £1 per litre at the pump.

Government B doesn't put a tax on fuel at all. Fuel price is 20p at the pump.

Fuel price at the well goes up to 30p. Price in government A's country goes up by 10% to 110p, price in Government B's country goes up 50% to 30p.

If you ran a company where the price of your main raw material was liable to fluctuate by 50% or more in a week, how would you be able to set prices on long term contracts? It'd be extremely difficult. Take a look at what happened in Nigeria earlier in the year to see why massive fluctuations in fuel price, even at a lower price, can cause big problems.

But thats a ridiculous argument because Government B would never take all the tax off fuel. So we dont end up with massive up and down fluctuations, we just end up with it going up and up and destroying businesses. Instead of comparing the UK to Nigeria - which is quite silly - why not compare it to more relevent nearby nations like France, who's diesel is currently 30p a litre cheaper than ours and they're just across the water.

Ideally fuel shouldnt be taxed at all aside from the standard VAT which applies to most things, so everybody in the world works according to the same market price. The price has gone up so fast in the last couple of years that we're already at a price level which we shouldnt be at for another 20 years - without fuel duty, oil would need to hit $250 a barrel to cost what it does now - and its all because of tax. If the tax came down at the same rate the oil went up we could easily stabilise it at around £1 a litre which I feel would be a fair price for the product.

Stabilising prices is a good thing, I agree with that. But thats not what UK policy is doing, its hiking prices which doesnt help anybody.