Insurance...again.
Discussion
I know there's been a few posts lately covering the various costs of insurance, but mine's soon due for renewal and I wanted other people views. Currently with Privilege, not had my renewal through yet, but with a trouble free year, hope it might go down !. In the mean time, I've had a good quote from Tesco's, which was even better when I declined the protected no claims. Also, had an even better quote from a company called Chaucer, via Quoteline Direct, again without protected no claims. My questions are, 1) What's other peoples view on the value on protected no claims ?, in view of the fact that if you have a claim, and then want to go elsewhere at renewal, you still have to disclose that you've had a claim, so the new insurer will almost certainly load the premium to a degree, and I do not believe the protected no claims is transferable. Also, your existing company could well load your premium at renewal because you've had a claim, while still maintaining you NCD, in other words, catch 22 ?. 2) Has anybody any experience with Chaucer/Quoteline Direct ?. Thanks
) I guess without protection, you'll drop two years from your NCD (around 30-40%) AND your premium will go up at the same time.
With protection, your NCD will not change (50-60%) AND your premium will go up. It depends on how much the loss of 20% discount is worth vs the extra premium in the first place.
I wasn't aware that protected NCD wasn't transferrable - if I'm on NCD but make one claim, aren't I still on maximum NCD?
>> Edited by jtong on Tuesday 27th July 12:08
With protection, your NCD will not change (50-60%) AND your premium will go up. It depends on how much the loss of 20% discount is worth vs the extra premium in the first place.
I wasn't aware that protected NCD wasn't transferrable - if I'm on NCD but make one claim, aren't I still on maximum NCD?
>> Edited by jtong on Tuesday 27th July 12:08
jtong said:
I guess without protection, you'll drop two years from your NCD (around 30-40%) AND your premium will go up at the same time.
I wasn't aware that protected NCD wasn't transferrable - if I'm on NCD but make one claim, aren't I still on maximum NCD?
the question asked is "have you had any accidents or convictions in the last 5 years"
I think answering "yes, all my fault but with protected NCB" would mean you are a higher risk & therefore increased premium.
Any insurance employees on PH care to comment? I would be interested to know the answer
In theory, I would say yes, but in practice, your current valid policy is a contract with your current insurer, to be fair, why should A.N.Other honour this if you've had a claim ?, and even if he did, you would have to tell him of "any accidents or convictions in the last x year's", so he would have to load the premium because of it ?.
Mr.T said:
Steve (Shpub), believe me, I can do the sums, but my point is, sure, you may still get 50-60% discount, if you have a claim, how sure are you that your initial premium would not be loaded due to your claim ?.
I'm not. I do know that a quote with and without NCB is different enough to make me want to ensure I maintain that discount.
Your decision in the end.
jtong said:
I guess without protection, you'll drop two years from your NCD (around 30-40%) AND your premium will go up at the same time.
With protection, your NCD will not change (50-60%) AND your premium will go up. It depends on how much the loss of 20% discount is worth vs the extra premium in the first place.
I wasn't aware that protected NCD wasn't transferrable - if I'm on NCD but make one claim, aren't I still on maximum NCD?
>> Edited by jtong on Tuesday 27th July 12:08
NCB is. If you transfer and your new company agrees then you get continued protection.
BTW I did have a claim in 1998 under a protected NCB. My premium went down the next year. I suppose I could have turned round and insisted they increased the premium but I couldn't be bothered
In the end it all depends on the individual so what is applicable in some cases may not be in others. The amount of the claim also comes into it.
I'm not in insurance but have a fairly good understanding of this, but rules do vary from company to company. Without Protected NCB on claiming you normally lose your NCB totally - painful. With Protected NCB although your premium will be weighted / increased due to the claim, your NCB is normally unaffected unless you have several claims over a period of say two years when many companies start reducing your NCB.
If you transfer to a new ins co on the renewal date after claiming, with protected NCB the new co will accept the full NCB which will be confirmed by your previous insurer. As far as claims are concerned I understand your premium is weighted even if a no fault claim unless full recovery is made by the insurer.
I think protected NCB is well worth having at the price as I wouldn't fancy insuring a group 20 Tiv without any NCB.
On the subject of NCB, I think it is worth keeping the renewal offer paperwork each year from your insurer as a way of documenting your NCB entitlement.
If you do not disclose claims / convictions etc to the new / any insurer then your insurance could be invalidated & I have heard of this happening so best to be honest.
If you transfer to a new ins co on the renewal date after claiming, with protected NCB the new co will accept the full NCB which will be confirmed by your previous insurer. As far as claims are concerned I understand your premium is weighted even if a no fault claim unless full recovery is made by the insurer.
I think protected NCB is well worth having at the price as I wouldn't fancy insuring a group 20 Tiv without any NCB.
On the subject of NCB, I think it is worth keeping the renewal offer paperwork each year from your insurer as a way of documenting your NCB entitlement.
If you do not disclose claims / convictions etc to the new / any insurer then your insurance could be invalidated & I have heard of this happening so best to be honest.
On the "to protect or not to protect" question there are imho two scenarios to consider ....It depends on if you have 2 or more accidents or claims (A's or C's) within three years.
In my experience, the insurance rule is even if your NCB is protected and you have 3 or more (A's or C's) within 3 years, the protection part of your policy is null and void anyway.
So if you have made 2 (A's or C's) but still have full NCB (as I do), it NOT worth protecting, because if you make another claim you WILL loose NCB's anyway!!! So you'd be spending an extra 10% for nothing.
If you have made less than 2 (A's or C's) within 3 years then it IS worth protecting, it basically comes down to this equation:
spending 10% extra on the value of your policy BEFORE an additional claim versus spending 10% or more extra on your new policy next year following a claim (because you will have lost at least 1 NCB - possibly more), and the next years policy is garunteed to be more than the previous years because:
1) You now have to declare an claim!!
2) Prices go up every year anyway!!
What makes my pi*s boil is that in this insurance world you HAVE to declare a claim even if it wasn't your fault and the other party's insurance admitted liability and paid for the repairs.!!!!
I was in a car park and someone reversed out of their parking spot into my stationary car, causing £6000 worth of damage. Their insurance paid for everything, but I have to declare that incident for the next 3 years .... and it affects MY policy!!!
>> Edited by sandman on Tuesday 27th July 15:28
In my experience, the insurance rule is even if your NCB is protected and you have 3 or more (A's or C's) within 3 years, the protection part of your policy is null and void anyway.
So if you have made 2 (A's or C's) but still have full NCB (as I do), it NOT worth protecting, because if you make another claim you WILL loose NCB's anyway!!! So you'd be spending an extra 10% for nothing.
If you have made less than 2 (A's or C's) within 3 years then it IS worth protecting, it basically comes down to this equation:
spending 10% extra on the value of your policy BEFORE an additional claim versus spending 10% or more extra on your new policy next year following a claim (because you will have lost at least 1 NCB - possibly more), and the next years policy is garunteed to be more than the previous years because:
1) You now have to declare an claim!!
2) Prices go up every year anyway!!
What makes my pi*s boil is that in this insurance world you HAVE to declare a claim even if it wasn't your fault and the other party's insurance admitted liability and paid for the repairs.!!!!
I was in a car park and someone reversed out of their parking spot into my stationary car, causing £6000 worth of damage. Their insurance paid for everything, but I have to declare that incident for the next 3 years .... and it affects MY policy!!!
>> Edited by sandman on Tuesday 27th July 15:28
I can imagine you are annoyed & a good point.
IMHO I think its probably still worth protecting as without protected NCB your NCB will go to zero, whereas with protected most companies knock you back to 30 or 40% NCB. This varies company by company so its worth checking.
The ins co's have a database of claims etc so as you say you have to declare the no faulter. Incidentally there is at least one co who does 'life bonus' you never lose (at a cost) but I did not find them competitive on the Tiv.
IMHO I think its probably still worth protecting as without protected NCB your NCB will go to zero, whereas with protected most companies knock you back to 30 or 40% NCB. This varies company by company so its worth checking.
The ins co's have a database of claims etc so as you say you have to declare the no faulter. Incidentally there is at least one co who does 'life bonus' you never lose (at a cost) but I did not find them competitive on the Tiv.
Ref protected bonus - a few years ago, was hit by a stolen car and the scumbag did a runner.
Claimed on my insurance (first for 20 years) and was told no probs - you have a protected bonus. So far so good.
Renewal time - premium has doubled so I get onto the insurance company. They agreed that I still had a full NCB but they had doubled the gross premium because of my claim.
or
Claimed on my insurance (first for 20 years) and was told no probs - you have a protected bonus. So far so good.
Renewal time - premium has doubled so I get onto the insurance company. They agreed that I still had a full NCB but they had doubled the gross premium because of my claim.
or Brent, thankyou, and with the greatest respect to all responses to my original post, what has happened to you is exactly the point I was trying to highlight and get people's thoughts on, when starting this thread. To you, the value of having, and paying for, a protected no claims, was basically.....zip!, sorry to hear of that.
I think you are missing the point I was trying to explain. If you claim, wrongly or rightly (IMO its totally wrong in some cases) the premium does get weighted / loaded because of the claim. But without protected no claims you lose your no claims bonus aswell, putting up the premium even further on renewal.
If you then take other insurance without disclosing relevant facts ie recent claims history (say by claiming you're a new driver and have just bought car) you risk invalidating your insurance. Its almost certain they will find out if you have to claim, as details of cover, claims and other info is recorded on a database shared by insurers and the police. The insurers also seem to be cracking down on this & I have heard of cases where they refuse to pay out.
If you then take other insurance without disclosing relevant facts ie recent claims history (say by claiming you're a new driver and have just bought car) you risk invalidating your insurance. Its almost certain they will find out if you have to claim, as details of cover, claims and other info is recorded on a database shared by insurers and the police. The insurers also seem to be cracking down on this & I have heard of cases where they refuse to pay out.
Just to illustrate my point if I quote what Brent said 'They agreed that I still had a full NCB but they had doubled the gross premium because of my claim.'
say, orig premium with 60% disc = £500 gross £200 net
after claiming gross premium increased by 100% but with PNCB = £1000 gross £400 net
without PNCB gross premium still increased by 100%= £1000 gross & net as no NCB discount left to use.
say, orig premium with 60% disc = £500 gross £200 net
after claiming gross premium increased by 100% but with PNCB = £1000 gross £400 net
without PNCB gross premium still increased by 100%= £1000 gross & net as no NCB discount left to use.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I always understood that if you have protected NCB, then at next year's renewal you will still be entitled to max 60% (or 65%), irrespective of the number or severity of any claims throughout the year. (acknowledged base premium would increase, but percentage discount remains unchanged).
However, If you don't have protected but make a first claim, then you will NOT lose all of your NCB. You only lose 2 years worth. Therefore you would drop from 60 to 40% next year. Following year you would receive 50%.
Example, Gross premium £1000.
In year following accident premium is £600 instead of £400. Following year premium is £500 instead of £400.
Total cost over next 2 years is £300 extra premium.
This is what you need to calculate to balance up against the extra cost of protection. If protection cost say an additional £100 p.a., then over the 3 years in question you would have paid an extra £100p.a. x 3 = £300.
In this example it comes out evens, which may surprise some. Gets more complicated if you have more than 1 accident, but at the end of the day you have to ask yourself, 'do I feel lucky?'.
Remember, the insurance companies aren't giving money away for free, and rest assured that they have done their sums. For me protected NCB is nothing more than insurance on my insurance. Another product that the evil money grabbing insurance companies are trying to sell to me. And something that they're bound to make a profit out of.
Solution? Become self insured, i.e. stash the extra £100 p.a. into a little account and repay yourself if you unfortunately have to make a claim.
However, If you don't have protected but make a first claim, then you will NOT lose all of your NCB. You only lose 2 years worth. Therefore you would drop from 60 to 40% next year. Following year you would receive 50%.
Example, Gross premium £1000.
In year following accident premium is £600 instead of £400. Following year premium is £500 instead of £400.
Total cost over next 2 years is £300 extra premium.
This is what you need to calculate to balance up against the extra cost of protection. If protection cost say an additional £100 p.a., then over the 3 years in question you would have paid an extra £100p.a. x 3 = £300.
In this example it comes out evens, which may surprise some. Gets more complicated if you have more than 1 accident, but at the end of the day you have to ask yourself, 'do I feel lucky?'.
Remember, the insurance companies aren't giving money away for free, and rest assured that they have done their sums. For me protected NCB is nothing more than insurance on my insurance. Another product that the evil money grabbing insurance companies are trying to sell to me. And something that they're bound to make a profit out of.
Solution? Become self insured, i.e. stash the extra £100 p.a. into a little account and repay yourself if you unfortunately have to make a claim.
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