1965 TVR 1800S Chassis number 65-5. 10**
Discussion
Sitting in my garage is an interesting 1800S, 1 owner from new, and currently fitted with a Daimler SP 250 V8 engine and close ratio gearbox. Its not a recent conversion, its been in there for about 40 years but its recently been rebuilt by a marque specialist, has custom stainless exhuast system etc, special bellhousing and modded Vauxhaul Ventora CR gearbox. Its about 170 bhp in 16 cwt so gives fun performance and sounds great. Its last journey before restoration started was from John o, Groats to Lands End in a day without using any motorways, 860 miles and averaged 36mpg. The body has been off and converted to bolt on, factory chassis mods for TR4 diff and has had a total bare chassis mechanical restoration with all new parts.
Qustion is, what do you think would be right way to proceed, I see 5 options.
1; finish it as a nice road car and preserve its history.
2; convert it back to 1800 and restore originality.
3; convert back to 1800 and make FIA eligible pre ,66 historic race car.
4; convert it to 289 V8 and make into a replica Griff 400.
5;convert it to 289 V8 and make FIA eligible replica Griff 400 race car.
Sitting next to it is a 1965 289 fully rebuilt engine with super T10 gearbox so latter 2 options are tempting.
Its now ready for trim and paint so obviously race car would be easisest and probably most potentially profitable option but it would make a super road car.
Qustion is, what do you think would be right way to proceed, I see 5 options.
1; finish it as a nice road car and preserve its history.
2; convert it back to 1800 and restore originality.
3; convert back to 1800 and make FIA eligible pre ,66 historic race car.
4; convert it to 289 V8 and make into a replica Griff 400.
5;convert it to 289 V8 and make FIA eligible replica Griff 400 race car.
Sitting next to it is a 1965 289 fully rebuilt engine with super T10 gearbox so latter 2 options are tempting.
Its now ready for trim and paint so obviously race car would be easisest and probably most potentially profitable option but it would make a super road car.
thegamekeeper said:
Sitting in my garage is an interesting 1800S, 1 owner from new, and currently fitted with a Daimler SP 250 V8 engine and close ratio gearbox. Its not a recent conversion, its been in there for about 40 years but its recently been rebuilt by a marque specialist, has custom stainless exhuast system etc, special bellhousing and modded Vauxhaul Ventora CR gearbox. Its about 170 bhp in 16 cwt so gives fun performance and sounds great. Its last journey before restoration started was from John o, Groats to Lands End in a day without using any motorways, 860 miles and averaged 36mpg. The body has been off and converted to bolt on, factory chassis mods for TR4 diff and has had a total bare chassis mechanical restoration with all new parts.
Qustion is, what do you think would be right way to proceed, I see 5 options.
1; finish it as a nice road car and preserve its history.
2; convert it back to 1800 and restore originality.
3; convert back to 1800 and make FIA eligible pre ,66 historic race car.
4; convert it to 289 V8 and make into a replica Griff 400.
5;convert it to 289 V8 and make FIA eligible replica Griff 400 race car.
Sitting next to it is a 1965 289 fully rebuilt engine with super T10 gearbox so latter 2 options are tempting.
Its now ready for trim and paint so obviously race car would be easisest and probably most potentially profitable option but it would make a super road car.
option 1 or 2, if you care to preserve some historyQustion is, what do you think would be right way to proceed, I see 5 options.
1; finish it as a nice road car and preserve its history.
2; convert it back to 1800 and restore originality.
3; convert back to 1800 and make FIA eligible pre ,66 historic race car.
4; convert it to 289 V8 and make into a replica Griff 400.
5;convert it to 289 V8 and make FIA eligible replica Griff 400 race car.
Sitting next to it is a 1965 289 fully rebuilt engine with super T10 gearbox so latter 2 options are tempting.
Its now ready for trim and paint so obviously race car would be easisest and probably most potentially profitable option but it would make a super road car.
option 5 if your looking for profit
thegamekeeper said:
Sitting in my garage is an interesting 1800S, 1 owner from new, and currently fitted with a Daimler SP 250 V8 engine and close ratio gearbox. Its not a recent conversion, its been in there for about 40 years but its recently been rebuilt by a marque specialist, has custom stainless exhuast system etc, special bellhousing and modded Vauxhaul Ventora CR gearbox. Its about 170 bhp in 16 cwt so gives fun performance and sounds great. Its last journey before restoration started was from John o, Groats to Lands End in a day without using any motorways, 860 miles and averaged 36mpg. The body has been off and converted to bolt on, factory chassis mods for TR4 diff and has had a total bare chassis mechanical restoration with all new parts.
Qustion is, what do you think would be right way to proceed, I see 5 options.
1; finish it as a nice road car and preserve its history.
2; convert it back to 1800 and restore originality.
3; convert back to 1800 and make FIA eligible pre ,66 historic race car.
4; convert it to 289 V8 and make into a replica Griff 400.
5;convert it to 289 V8 and make FIA eligible replica Griff 400 race car.
Sitting next to it is a 1965 289 fully rebuilt engine with super T10 gearbox so latter 2 options are tempting.
Its now ready for trim and paint so obviously race car would be easisest and probably most potentially profitable option but it would make a super road car.
Depends on what you want. Qustion is, what do you think would be right way to proceed, I see 5 options.
1; finish it as a nice road car and preserve its history.
2; convert it back to 1800 and restore originality.
3; convert back to 1800 and make FIA eligible pre ,66 historic race car.
4; convert it to 289 V8 and make into a replica Griff 400.
5;convert it to 289 V8 and make FIA eligible replica Griff 400 race car.
Sitting next to it is a 1965 289 fully rebuilt engine with super T10 gearbox so latter 2 options are tempting.
Its now ready for trim and paint so obviously race car would be easisest and probably most potentially profitable option but it would make a super road car.
Sounds like an easy job to put back to a nice original road car and not expensive - I have a suitable MG engine and box with or without overdrive if that's what you want.
In terms of ROI I would suggest that going one of the FIA routes would be best. It would certainly be eligible as a GTS11 car (under 2L pre 66) and probably as a Griffith replica. However I suspect it would not be worth much more as a Griff replica than a correct 1800S, on the other hand if you already have the two major bits.....(and a race MGB engine is a lot more expensive than cooking 289) but make sure the engine is 'correct'. A Griffith bitsa race car aint worth anything like as much as an FIA car with papers.
HTH
tvrski said:
thegamekeeper said:
Sitting in my garage is an interesting 1800S, 1 owner from new, and currently fitted with a Daimler SP 250 V8 engine and close ratio gearbox. Its not a recent conversion, its been in there for about 40 years but its recently been rebuilt by a marque specialist, has custom stainless exhuast system etc, special bellhousing and modded Vauxhaul Ventora CR gearbox. Its about 170 bhp in 16 cwt so gives fun performance and sounds great. Its last journey before restoration started was from John o, Groats to Lands End in a day without using any motorways, 860 miles and averaged 36mpg. The body has been off and converted to bolt on, factory chassis mods for TR4 diff and has had a total bare chassis mechanical restoration with all new parts.
Qustion is, what do you think would be right way to proceed, I see 5 options.
1; finish it as a nice road car and preserve its history.
2; convert it back to 1800 and restore originality.
3; convert back to 1800 and make FIA eligible pre ,66 historic race car.
4; convert it to 289 V8 and make into a replica Griff 400.
5;convert it to 289 V8 and make FIA eligible replica Griff 400 race car.
Sitting next to it is a 1965 289 fully rebuilt engine with super T10 gearbox so latter 2 options are tempting.
Its now ready for trim and paint so obviously race car would be easisest and probably most potentially profitable option but it would make a super road car.
option 1 or 2, if you care to preserve some historyQustion is, what do you think would be right way to proceed, I see 5 options.
1; finish it as a nice road car and preserve its history.
2; convert it back to 1800 and restore originality.
3; convert back to 1800 and make FIA eligible pre ,66 historic race car.
4; convert it to 289 V8 and make into a replica Griff 400.
5;convert it to 289 V8 and make FIA eligible replica Griff 400 race car.
Sitting next to it is a 1965 289 fully rebuilt engine with super T10 gearbox so latter 2 options are tempting.
Its now ready for trim and paint so obviously race car would be easisest and probably most potentially profitable option but it would make a super road car.
option "3" if your looking for profit
You know it makes sense
N.
Edited by heightswitch on Thursday 10th May 12:54
Option one, without a doubt. That Daimler V8 is an absolute gem and probably more suited to the car than anything that was 'officially' put in - plus in this case the car has a very intersting history in its own right; something you will never get back if you downgrade it to an original 1800S, or build a fake Griff from it.
I would also keep it the way it is i.e. Option 1. Sounds like a lovely car.
I wouldn't try and turn it into a racer. If you converted it to a Grantura pre'66 car you'll have too many people coming up saying "but it never raced internationally with that rear profile (Kamm tail)" and the fact that the FIA have chosen to give out HTPs despite this won't silence them. To make a Griff race car that would be in any way competitive would require a significant investment and there are a lot of expertly built 'new' FIA Griffs said to be in the pipeline.
Incidentally, if it is the car I am thinking about then there is a nice, detailed write-up of its history in the TVRCC magazine from September 1979 (apologies if you already know this Steve).
Rod
I wouldn't try and turn it into a racer. If you converted it to a Grantura pre'66 car you'll have too many people coming up saying "but it never raced internationally with that rear profile (Kamm tail)" and the fact that the FIA have chosen to give out HTPs despite this won't silence them. To make a Griff race car that would be in any way competitive would require a significant investment and there are a lot of expertly built 'new' FIA Griffs said to be in the pipeline.
Incidentally, if it is the car I am thinking about then there is a nice, detailed write-up of its history in the TVRCC magazine from September 1979 (apologies if you already know this Steve).
Rod
heightswitch said:
Keep it just the way it is..Finish it and run it for 12mths prior to offering someone the chance to own it. The SP250 is a lovely engine..The 1800S is a lovely car..both together will make a lovely modified thing all in period.
You know it makes sense
N.
Yep, agree with this. You know it makes sense
N.
begbier said:
I would also keep it the way it is i.e. Option 1. Sounds like a lovely car.
I wouldn't try and turn it into a racer. If you converted it to a Grantura pre'66 car you'll have too many people coming up saying "but it never raced internationally with that rear profile (Kamm tail)" and the fact that the FIA have chosen to give out HTPs despite this won't silence them. To make a Griff race car that would be in any way competitive would require a significant investment and there are a lot of expertly built 'new' FIA Griffs said to be in the pipeline.
Incidentally, if it is the car I am thinking about then there is a nice, detailed write-up of its history in the TVRCC magazine from September 1979 (apologies if you already know this Steve).
Rod
yes Rod, thats the one, interestingly he said he hit a tree in Glasgow that stepped out in front of him, I tree in Glasgow, as if. Suspect he had been on the single malt. Known the car and Ken a long time, great man. He had been restoring the car for 7 years and phoned me regularly. he finally asked me to find it a new owner because he didn,t think he would be able to drive it if it was finished. When I asked why he said because it was probably going to take him a few more years as he was slowing down in the garage and he was already 89. Because he was slowing down he decided to fill his time writing a workshop manual for it. Spent 2 years on his computer and if Haynes could have done it as well I would have been amazed, full of engineering drawings,part numbers, diagrams etc, a brilliant thing in its own right.I wouldn't try and turn it into a racer. If you converted it to a Grantura pre'66 car you'll have too many people coming up saying "but it never raced internationally with that rear profile (Kamm tail)" and the fact that the FIA have chosen to give out HTPs despite this won't silence them. To make a Griff race car that would be in any way competitive would require a significant investment and there are a lot of expertly built 'new' FIA Griffs said to be in the pipeline.
Incidentally, if it is the car I am thinking about then there is a nice, detailed write-up of its history in the TVRCC magazine from September 1979 (apologies if you already know this Steve).
Rod
ps, not seen you out and about in your car for a while, hope all,s well
Edited by thegamekeeper on Thursday 10th May 14:45
In the end of season outing last year my TVR lived up to the reputation in period - the famous front suspension collapse when the vertical link went on a slow corner. All I can say is it was slightly less exciting than when the rear wheels have parted company, the other period trick of '60s TVR racers!
The first outing this year lasted six seconds before something went in the gearbox and 3rd/4th gears were no more. Other than that, things are fine Steve. Have sent you a PM.
Rod
The first outing this year lasted six seconds before something went in the gearbox and 3rd/4th gears were no more. Other than that, things are fine Steve. Have sent you a PM.
Rod
Edited by begbier on Friday 11th May 13:20
begbier said:
In the send of season outing last year my TVR lived up to the reputation in period - the famous front suspension collapse when the vertical link went on a slow corner. All I can say is it was slightly less exciting than when the rear wheels have parted company, the other period trick of '60s TVR racers!
The first outing this year lasted six seconds before something went in the gearbox and 3rd/4th gears were no more. Other than that, things are fine Steve. Have sent you a PM.
Rod
Amazed you had a vertical link failure, even on my road Grantura I treat them as a service item. Although they were used for many years in F1 in a modified form I suspect they were changed very frequently. When you consider they were made for a 948cc Triumph Herald with 4" wide cross plies which went round corners at walking speed. (for those of you who are not that old, cross plies were the tyres fitted to all road cars till the mid 60,s and because they had zero grip put no stress on components). You then put them on a race tuned 4.7 V8 engined sportscar with massive brakes and tyres and wonder why they break. Its amazing how they always seem to fail at low speed thankfully.The first outing this year lasted six seconds before something went in the gearbox and 3rd/4th gears were no more. Other than that, things are fine Steve. Have sent you a PM.
Rod
Thanks for the PM, for fear of litigation perhaps we should discuss some of those cars out of earshot. I could right a book about these things.
On a similar tack the Sebring Mk3 should be coming out of its container any time soon, thats a car with provable provenance right back to the factory. It has been bought by a very unlikely UK Buyer, not at liberty to say who but I,m sure all will soon be revealed. Be interesting to see what becomes of it.
On the Tony Claydon advert I think its a clever play on words.
Edited by thegamekeeper on Thursday 10th May 17:04
The vertical links are changed regularly and are, in fact, the stronger ones from the GT6 Mk3. First vertical link to go in 10 yaers of racing the car, but there you go. It was at Portimao which is quite a roller coaster of a track and has some vicious modern F1 style kerbs. The driver admits his lines across some of those kerbs may have contributed to the failure!
Edited by begbier on Friday 11th May 13:22
What a great dilemma to have - as to the options the FIA racing route is the one that attracts me although making a half decent Griffith or Grantura will not be a cheap exercise although I expect they would cost similar figures noting that a new Mass MGB engine is now £15k
I would imagine that a Griffith should sell for a bit more than a Grantura say £35k compared to £50-60k - but I am not a dealer so am no expert when it comes to prices
On a side note we are having great fun with our fia 1800s and should be at the ring for the Old Timers GP this Aug
I would imagine that a Griffith should sell for a bit more than a Grantura say £35k compared to £50-60k - but I am not a dealer so am no expert when it comes to prices
On a side note we are having great fun with our fia 1800s and should be at the ring for the Old Timers GP this Aug
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