"Adaptive" ECU

Author
Discussion

stuh

Original Poster:

2,557 posts

246 months

Wednesday 28th July 2004
quotequote all
What exactly adapts and how?

I ask because my car had some mapping work done by Roush last week and i've noticed the character of the car is considerably different before and after! Not better or worse, just different, power comes in later but stronger, or so it seems to me.

LaurenceFrost

691 posts

225 months

Thursday 29th July 2004
quotequote all
Adaptive ECU's are generally fitted with sensors to feed back the results of a minor alteration. Many ECU's have knock sensors, which means that the ECU can play around with ignition timing and fueling to the point the knock sensors report knocking.

I know of a few owners of japanese cars with adaptive ECU's, and after resetting, they have reported that the car feels different every time they put their foot down for the first few miles. After this point, the ECU gets a feel for the fuel it has been given etc. and by using the sensors, can optimise the performance of the car by realising how much ignition advance it can get away with, and how it can adjust the mixture (lambda sensor related?) for extra gains.

I'm unsure if the Noble is equipped with this kind of ECU, but it all seems pretty high-tech, so I'd be suprised if it wasn't adaptive.

Perhaps YellowShed could comment. This could make interesting discussion.

amg merc

11,942 posts

226 months

Thursday 29th July 2004
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Not quite the same thing (and of no relevance to the manual box Noble) but my Merc (and no doubt many other cars with modern auto boxes) has an adaptive gearbox - it changes up/down differently depending how its being driven - weired when your'e not expecting it!

DanH

12,287 posts

233 months

Thursday 29th July 2004
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I wondering about there being a knock sensor wired into the ECU as Micknall made a comment the other day saying there was no benefit performance wise to using super unleaded.

YellowShed

587 posts

256 months

Thursday 29th July 2004
quotequote all
The ECU has an adaptive function for the fuelling. Basically, the lambda sensors always switch at the same detected air/fuel ratio. If, over a period of time the actual airflow (or fuel flow) changes from that which was mapped, then the system learns that change through the adaption process.

The vehicles are not equipped with knock sensors and have all been mapped for 95RON fuel as we can't guarantee that everyone will always use higher octane fuel. As such, there is no advantage from a knock point of view to running a higher octane fuel. If there are any benefits from the additives which enhance the combustion, then you may get more power from them. I cannot comment, as I've never back-to-backed a fuel-only change on the dyno.

Hope that helps,

YellowShed

m12_nathan

5,138 posts

232 months

Thursday 29th July 2004
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Will a 97RON map be done in the future for those of us that only use 9798 ron fuel?

YellowShed

587 posts

256 months

Thursday 29th July 2004
quotequote all
No!

Sorry. Consider: what happens if someone only uses 98/97RON and sells the car on to someone who doesn't while still under warranty?

How do Roush/Factory manage who has what calibration etc? It's just too much of a nightmare.....

YellowShed

m12_nathan

5,138 posts

232 months

Thursday 29th July 2004
quotequote all
Sticker on the fuel filler cap and on the revcounter?

kj-r

1,876 posts

224 months

Thursday 29th July 2004
quotequote all
Trevor, if the ecu were mapped for 97ron would there be any significant increase in power ? on another car of mine it makes 5% difference !

Kevin

YellowShed

587 posts

256 months

Thursday 29th July 2004
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Possibly, but subjectively, you cannot tell 5% power difference on it's own. You need at least 10% to be felt subjectively. I would expect to see no more than 3% for octane rating, which is a lot less than cold to hot day variation from a power point of view.

YellowShed

m12_nathan

5,138 posts

232 months

Thursday 29th July 2004
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Can you connect the aircon to the intercooler

DanH

12,287 posts

233 months

Thursday 29th July 2004
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Yep I reckon getting some cold air to the intercooler would help more.

ThatPhilBrettGuy

11,809 posts

213 months

Thursday 29th July 2004
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DanH said:

Yep I reckon getting some cold air to the intercooler would help more.

It'd really only help to run more boost. You could probably do a bit more than 0.7 BAR anyway without any other changes.

DanH

12,287 posts

233 months

Thursday 29th July 2004
quotequote all
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:

DanH said:

Yep I reckon getting some cold air to the intercooler would help more.


It'd really only help to run more boost. You could probably do a bit more than 0.7 BAR anyway without any other changes.


Have you seen how hot the intercooler gets on track? It can't be working at full efficiency!

amg merc

11,942 posts

226 months

Thursday 29th July 2004
quotequote all
DanH said:

ThatPhilBrettGuy said:


DanH said:

Yep I reckon getting some cold air to the intercooler would help more.



It'd really only help to run more boost. You could probably do a bit more than 0.7 BAR anyway without any other changes.



Have you seen how hot the intercooler gets on track? It can't be working at full efficiency!


... hot enough to melt my throttle cable!

LaurenceFrost

691 posts

225 months

Friday 30th July 2004
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I suppose water injection might be worth investigating. How does the M400 cope with the extra boost on track? It's 0.9 bar right? Does it retain the M12's standard intercooler?

YellowShed

587 posts

256 months

Friday 30th July 2004
quotequote all
With the Factory's blessing, we're working on a water injection kit which is fully integrated into and controlled by the ECU. First tests are encouraging at controlling the air temps better. We hope to be running one in a development car soon. Any takers out there?

Edited to say:

Oops, sorry. Didn't mean to imply we wanted a development car. We have a car to do the development on, I was actually testing the water to see what level of interest in the system there would be. What I should do then, when the system is ready to be launched, is post a new thread.

>> Edited by YellowShed on Friday 30th July 15:32

DanH

12,287 posts

233 months

Friday 30th July 2004
quotequote all

I might be tempted once I get my car in a couple of weeks. Are there any downsides to having such a system and what would you need to do with the car to test/setup?

LaurenceFrost

691 posts

225 months

Friday 30th July 2004
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DanH said:
Are there any downsides to having such a system

On hot days you get through about 6 litres of water in just a few laps

DanH

12,287 posts

233 months

Friday 30th July 2004
quotequote all

Yep and it has to be distilled water too right? As long as its switchable its not that big a prob.