Porsche engines
Discussion
Now I know a lot of people are aware of the possible engine issues that 996s and 997s can suffer from (and please note that I've used the word possible as I know that a lot of cars out there are ok. A load of 911 owners will now tell me the same 
)
But this post is actually about a car that everyone loves to hate, the Cayenne S. For some reason I really fancy a non-turbo Cayenne so have started looking about. I'm pretty surprised to find that the V8 engine in these can suffer from cylinder scoring issues effectively meaning a new block. Some of the examples I've read about are low mileage, meticulously maintained one owner cars. Out of warranty, replacing the engine pretty much equates to the value of the car (I was looking for a 2004 model). The general opinion on forums such as Rennlist, etc seems to be that this is due to a manufacturing issue and Porsche don't really want to know or help owners. This has totally put me off buying one which in a way has annoyed me as I sort of had my heart set.
So what has been happening at Porsche for cars to have these issues? Is it like Mercedes in the late 90s where the bean counters took over and quality took a dive?
)But this post is actually about a car that everyone loves to hate, the Cayenne S. For some reason I really fancy a non-turbo Cayenne so have started looking about. I'm pretty surprised to find that the V8 engine in these can suffer from cylinder scoring issues effectively meaning a new block. Some of the examples I've read about are low mileage, meticulously maintained one owner cars. Out of warranty, replacing the engine pretty much equates to the value of the car (I was looking for a 2004 model). The general opinion on forums such as Rennlist, etc seems to be that this is due to a manufacturing issue and Porsche don't really want to know or help owners. This has totally put me off buying one which in a way has annoyed me as I sort of had my heart set.
So what has been happening at Porsche for cars to have these issues? Is it like Mercedes in the late 90s where the bean counters took over and quality took a dive?
I was looking at a Cayenne S last year. Ended up with a Jeep Grand Cherokee as a stop gap and swapped that for a Range Rover now. I didn't finish my research or reading but IIRC it was the coolant pipes that were the common problem that put me off.
The silly thing is a year later I did buy a Porsche which has the supposed problems you describe ...
The silly thing is a year later I did buy a Porsche which has the supposed problems you describe ...
Edited by edc on Sunday 13th May 22:39
I read a buyers guide to Cayennes in an old issue of evo. It said the early S version uses a Lokasil coating on the cylinder bores which has a nasty habit of failing on cars over 70k causing catastrophic engine failure. Once the coating starts to go it can go straight to complete failure in as little as 500 miles. The turbo however uses a Nikasil coating which does not suffer the same problem. It mentioned that the S changed to Nikasil when the Cayenne was facelifted in 2007.
See previous reply regarding Lokasil liners, and the evo article.
The problem is real on older cars, and you may get lucky, or you may not. But it does seem to be like a bit of a timebomb on the older cars.
As to how it happened, I'd imagine it was because the V8 in the Cayenne was their first since the 928, and engine design has moved on a lot, so they incorporated a lot of new tech that that didn't have decades of experience and 1000's of cars behind it. So the early cars were effectively the guinea pigs for the engine, and a long term issue has arisen.
The problem is real on older cars, and you may get lucky, or you may not. But it does seem to be like a bit of a timebomb on the older cars.
As to how it happened, I'd imagine it was because the V8 in the Cayenne was their first since the 928, and engine design has moved on a lot, so they incorporated a lot of new tech that that didn't have decades of experience and 1000's of cars behind it. So the early cars were effectively the guinea pigs for the engine, and a long term issue has arisen.
PhilboSE said:
See previous reply regarding Lokasil liners, and the evo article.
The problem is real on older cars, and you may get lucky, or you may not. But it does seem to be like a bit of a timebomb on the older cars.
As to how it happened, I'd imagine it was because the V8 in the Cayenne was their first since the 928, and engine design has moved on a lot, so they incorporated a lot of new tech that that didn't have decades of experience and 1000's of cars behind it. So the early cars were effectively the guinea pigs for the engine, and a long term issue has arisen.
Does it happen with the Turbo as well?The problem is real on older cars, and you may get lucky, or you may not. But it does seem to be like a bit of a timebomb on the older cars.
As to how it happened, I'd imagine it was because the V8 in the Cayenne was their first since the 928, and engine design has moved on a lot, so they incorporated a lot of new tech that that didn't have decades of experience and 1000's of cars behind it. So the early cars were effectively the guinea pigs for the engine, and a long term issue has arisen.
I didn't realise the 997s suffered too.
IM starting to wonder why they are so popular.
In my eyes Porshes are brilliant cars because they are a high performance car with minimal servicing neccesary, reliable and capable of high miles without major issues.
Except that catastrophic engine failure in most of thier models puts them on a par with TVR.
Very odd. I now cant really understand why they are so popular.
IM starting to wonder why they are so popular.
In my eyes Porshes are brilliant cars because they are a high performance car with minimal servicing neccesary, reliable and capable of high miles without major issues.
Except that catastrophic engine failure in most of thier models puts them on a par with TVR.
Very odd. I now cant really understand why they are so popular.
blindswelledrat said:
I didn't realise the 997s suffered too.
IM starting to wonder why they are so popular.
In my eyes Porshes are brilliant cars because they are a high performance car with minimal servicing neccesary, reliable and capable of high miles without major issues.
Except that catastrophic engine failure in most of thier models puts them on a par with TVR.
Very odd. I now cant really understand why they are so popular.
Are you serious?IM starting to wonder why they are so popular.
In my eyes Porshes are brilliant cars because they are a high performance car with minimal servicing neccesary, reliable and capable of high miles without major issues.
Except that catastrophic engine failure in most of thier models puts them on a par with TVR.
Very odd. I now cant really understand why they are so popular.
I wouldn't touch an early Cayenne as they all look a bit baggy now, You don't get the specialist servicing and knowledge that you do with a 911 but to suggest that a 997 is no more reliable then a late TVR. Come on.
It all went down hill when they stopped using the LT Van engine in the 924 and started making their own, all 996's should be offered a retro fit Van engine, like they have done with the Cayenne Diesel.
Obviously the pinacle of Porsche's engine development were the four cylinders used in the 944, so many still dragging their sorry arses about, everything that came after seems to eat itself
Obviously the pinacle of Porsche's engine development were the four cylinders used in the 944, so many still dragging their sorry arses about, everything that came after seems to eat itself
Presuming Ed said:
Are you serious?
I wouldn't touch an early Cayenne as they all look a bit baggy now, You don't get the specialist servicing and knowledge that you do with a 911 but to suggest that a 997 is no more reliable then a late TVR. Come on.
My comparison to the TVR was more along the lines of the TUscans disposable engine.I wouldn't touch an early Cayenne as they all look a bit baggy now, You don't get the specialist servicing and knowledge that you do with a 911 but to suggest that a 997 is no more reliable then a late TVR. Come on.
I still consider Porsches to be reliable on the whole, but when the one weak spot is an engine, then all the rest of the reliability becomes irrelevant.
I couldn't care less if my air conditioning still works after 10 years if I have just forked out £9k for an engine.
Presuming Ed said:
The Difference being the Tuscan is probably more a case of when and not if an engine goes bang, (OK thats a bit harsh) but the Porsche is a case of seriosly unlucky for an engine to have issues.
I dont think that was harsh on the TUscans. From looking into it I think every Tuscan engine went at some point. Might be wrong but if you look through adverts for them I think literally all of them will list when they had a new one fitted.Re the Porshes- I can't really comment but the description abouve of the perishing nikasil definitely sounds like a case of 'when' rather than 'if'.
TO me it is just more noticable on the Porsches because they are a mass produced and very expensive cars and are bought because you are supposed to be able to do decent mileage with few problems.
blindswelledrat said:
Presuming Ed said:
The Difference being the Tuscan is probably more a case of when and not if an engine goes bang, (OK thats a bit harsh) but the Porsche is a case of seriosly unlucky for an engine to have issues.
I dont think that was harsh on the TUscans. From looking into it I think every Tuscan engine went at some point. Might be wrong but if you look through adverts for them I think literally all of them will list when they had a new one fitted.Re the Porshes- I can't really comment but the description abouve of the perishing nikasil definitely sounds like a case of 'when' rather than 'if'.
TO me it is just more noticable on the Porsches because they are a mass produced and very expensive cars and are bought because you are supposed to be able to do decent mileage with few problems.
I was always told that a Nikasil lined engine will outlive a steel lined equivalent.
There were problems pre-2000 with high sulphur fuel contaminating the lining and causing damage to BMWs, Jags, Yamaha engines etc... IMO Jaguar's reputation took the biggest hit.
The fuel quality is now better and has been for some time. I've had one Nikasil and would have another.
No idea about the other liner or the manufacturing process of course...
There were problems pre-2000 with high sulphur fuel contaminating the lining and causing damage to BMWs, Jags, Yamaha engines etc... IMO Jaguar's reputation took the biggest hit.
The fuel quality is now better and has been for some time. I've had one Nikasil and would have another.
No idea about the other liner or the manufacturing process of course...
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