Some accident figures
Discussion
2003: 290,607 reported casualties on GB roads. 4% drop on 2002.
Biggest increase in fatalities are my fellow motorcyclists with 14% increase. Unfortunately, the majority of these fatal motorcycles accidents ARE solely down to excessive speeds, often with only themselves involved in the accident.
There has been an increase in drink related death and injury and a Home Office/Dft/ACPO directive is being made to tackle the problem. This I'm reliably informed is going to mean an increase in Trafpol numbers. Nothing dramatic at first, but a step in the right direction.
Street
Biggest increase in fatalities are my fellow motorcyclists with 14% increase. Unfortunately, the majority of these fatal motorcycles accidents ARE solely down to excessive speeds, often with only themselves involved in the accident.
There has been an increase in drink related death and injury and a Home Office/Dft/ACPO directive is being made to tackle the problem. This I'm reliably informed is going to mean an increase in Trafpol numbers. Nothing dramatic at first, but a step in the right direction.
Street
Streetcop said:
Biggest increase in fatalities are my fellow motorcyclists with 14% increase. Unfortunately, the majority of these fatal motorcycles accidents ARE solely down to excessive speeds, often with only themselves involved in the accident.
Have to agree. You only have to read any of the bike mags to see this. I reckon quite a few are "gangs" of bikers riding together; the inexperienced try to keep up with the experienced, and hey presto, another comes off on a corner, through going too fast for his skills.
Streetcop said:Absolutely
This I'm reliably informed is going to mean an increase in Trafpol numbers. Nothing dramatic at first, but a step in the right direction.
interesting point. I was going to say "Well it affects the poor emergency services who have to scrape the bits up, and then hospital time for those who don't quite kill themselves", but then that's all relevant to smokers too.
You could also say "unfortunately some bikes will collect someone else during their accident so it can affect others" - but then that's passive smoking!
so...dunno!
You could also say "unfortunately some bikes will collect someone else during their accident so it can affect others" - but then that's passive smoking!
so...dunno!
Streetcop said:
Biggest increase in fatalities are my fellow motorcyclists with 14% increase. Unfortunately, the majority of these fatal motorcycles accidents ARE solely down to excessive speeds, often with only themselves involved in the accident.
Really? IIRC, the bike mags recently had senior trafpols reporting on these figures where they said the single-vehicle accidents are most often on bends - especially left-hand bends. These accidents tend to be due to lack of machine control, and panic braking instead of leaning further, rather than outright speed.
This increase only becomes meaningful if we know if there has been an increase or decrease in the number of motorcyclists. Once again better rider training is the key here not speed cameras, most bikes these days are very fast, that combined with more cars driven mainly by badly trained drivers not paying attention is the problem.
Yea I read that too.
I ride bikes and must admit that on a modern sports bike once your into the 3rd gear you are well over the speed limit - so any stats generated on bikes will most likely show "excessive" speed but that is just too easy.
What about poor rider ability, poor road suface, on coming vehicle, tireness - there are heaps of reasons. From my own point of view any moments I have on my bike are a lapse in concentration.
Sadly it is too easy to tick the excessive speed box because that problem is easy to fix, where as all the other require some effort by somebody.
When my own police force is looking at a £1.7M budget short fall - actually doing anything has terrible consequences!
I ride bikes and must admit that on a modern sports bike once your into the 3rd gear you are well over the speed limit - so any stats generated on bikes will most likely show "excessive" speed but that is just too easy.
What about poor rider ability, poor road suface, on coming vehicle, tireness - there are heaps of reasons. From my own point of view any moments I have on my bike are a lapse in concentration.
Sadly it is too easy to tick the excessive speed box because that problem is easy to fix, where as all the other require some effort by somebody.
When my own police force is looking at a £1.7M budget short fall - actually doing anything has terrible consequences!
Hmmmm. Increase in trafpol numbers or a return to the numbers of a few years back? Suppose that will be spun to high heaven if and when the announcement is made.
"we've just increased trafpol numbers by x percent, aren't we fantastic! Of course, we're still y percent under the numbers we had a few years ago, but we don't need to menion that do we...."
"we've just increased trafpol numbers by x percent, aren't we fantastic! Of course, we're still y percent under the numbers we had a few years ago, but we don't need to menion that do we...."
its a shame then that the gov won't fund bikesafe, which for me at least, has shown me the ways which will stop me being on the casualty list.
at £1.3 million saved PER life saved. maybe there should be more backing? it WILL save money, reduce stats andate an approachable face to police [bikers]
far more effective than just nicking us for speeding.
>> Edited by stooz on Thursday 29th July 13:53
at £1.3 million saved PER life saved. maybe there should be more backing? it WILL save money, reduce stats andate an approachable face to police [bikers]
far more effective than just nicking us for speeding.
>> Edited by stooz on Thursday 29th July 13:53
Fundementally there isn't enough money to do everything is there.
We don't like to pay high taxes but we want good hospitals, schools, etc, etc. So I guess a bike safety course is pretty low in priority.
If your honest we all ride pretty quick thats half the attraction of a 2004 R1 over a 2001 Fireblade for instance! So if we fire it off on that left/right hander then by and large we had it coming.
The biggest issue is taking the innocent with you - my earlier point is that I find it pretty rich all the emotional points made over speed but we can smoke ourselves to death no problem. It is stupid.
We don't like to pay high taxes but we want good hospitals, schools, etc, etc. So I guess a bike safety course is pretty low in priority.
If your honest we all ride pretty quick thats half the attraction of a 2004 R1 over a 2001 Fireblade for instance! So if we fire it off on that left/right hander then by and large we had it coming.
The biggest issue is taking the innocent with you - my earlier point is that I find it pretty rich all the emotional points made over speed but we can smoke ourselves to death no problem. It is stupid.
£1.3million per death? Is that the effect of inflation?
I thought we'd done the "each road death costs £1M" thing, and it turned out that it was the result of some cost accountant's fevered imagination and went:
Cleaning up the mess - £100k (Emergency & Health services)
Loss of future earnings - £300k
Pain & Suffering of loved ones - £600k
I'm happy to be corrected on this,
SS7
I thought we'd done the "each road death costs £1M" thing, and it turned out that it was the result of some cost accountant's fevered imagination and went:
Cleaning up the mess - £100k (Emergency & Health services)
Loss of future earnings - £300k
Pain & Suffering of loved ones - £600k
I'm happy to be corrected on this,
SS7
Whoozit said:
Biggest increase in fatalities are my fellow motorcyclists with 14% increase. Unfortunately, the majority of these fatal motorcycles accidents ARE solely down to excessive speeds, often with only themselves involved in the accident.
Really? IIRC, the bike mags recently had senior trafpols reporting on these figures where they said the single-vehicle accidents are most often on bends - especially left-hand bends. These accidents tend to be due to lack of machine control, and panic braking instead of leaning further, rather than outright speed.
Yep...still speed is a contributory factor..(too fast for the bend resulting in the rider and machine crossing the white line and into contact with oncoming vehicles)
When I did my advanced riding course the instructor used to have a saying for bends:
"Slow in quick out...quick in shit out"
Street
hornet said:
Hmmmm. Increase in trafpol numbers or a return to the numbers of a few years back? Suppose that will be spun to high heaven if and when the announcement is made.
"we've just increased trafpol numbers by x percent, aren't we fantastic! Of course, we're still y percent under the numbers we had a few years ago, but we don't need to menion that do we...."
I think you're asumption about numbers getting back to the old numbers will be the case....
Which is an achievement, especially when some forces have dispanded their traffic police totally and now finding themselves snowed under with traffic incidents.
Street
stooz said:
its a shame then that the gov won't fund bikesafe, which for me at least, has shown me the ways which will stop me being on the casualty list.
Glad you found it of benefit...I've assisted with Bikesafe and such schemes/charity incidents for a couple of years now and they are always well recieved.
However, the old business about taking a horse to water etc is true...Only those who are Man enough to admit they need training will be those who attend...The other cocky 'I'm Barry Sheene' sorts will still end up casualties and have to be dealt with by enforcement as opposed to education..
Street
Stooz said:-
"its a shame then that the gov won't fund bikesafe, which for me at least, has shown me the ways which will stop me being on the casualty list."
Did a BikeSafe course with North Wales police last weekend. Apparently they applied for funding from the scamera scheme and were turned down! I thought the money collected was for road safety!!!
"its a shame then that the gov won't fund bikesafe, which for me at least, has shown me the ways which will stop me being on the casualty list."
Did a BikeSafe course with North Wales police last weekend. Apparently they applied for funding from the scamera scheme and were turned down! I thought the money collected was for road safety!!!
Enjoy! Hi Street,
I collected the info for the IAM from the BikeSafe course, so that's next on the agenda!
Apparently, there isn't much of a ROSPA presence in North Wales but the IAM is thriving. Most of the observers on the course were both and the PC running the course is one of the examiners for the IAM.
I'll let you know how I get on!
Regards,
Richard
I collected the info for the IAM from the BikeSafe course, so that's next on the agenda!
Apparently, there isn't much of a ROSPA presence in North Wales but the IAM is thriving. Most of the observers on the course were both and the PC running the course is one of the examiners for the IAM.
I'll let you know how I get on!
Regards,
Richard
Streetcop said:
Yep...still speed is a contributory factor..(too fast for the bend resulting in the rider and machine crossing the white line and into contact with oncoming vehicles)
Street
I just had a thought. Is there a basis for stating that the definition of excessive speed is being mis-applied to motorbikes? Bear with me for a moment.
For excessive speed to cause a single-vehicle accident in a bend for a car, must mean in most cases that it understeered into the bend despite having the appropriate amount of steering lock on. In this case, the demands on the tyres have exceeded the available grip.
From what I've read of the majority of single-vehicle bike accidents in a bend, the problem is not that the tyres let go, but that the rider does not input the appropriate amount of steering, i.e. increase the lean angle. Only if the bike is at full lean and then understeers would the situation be the same as for a car.
Does this sound reasonable?
I'm with you...
The problem is; the majority of motorcycle riders aren't confident enough with their machines. For example the lean angle which the rider thinks is the absolute maximum is a lot higher than the bike is actually capable of.
However, when you're on a bike and the bend you've entered is suddenly getting tighter and tighter, it's an experienced or very confident rider that leans further and further still to achieve the right balance. More often than not, the rider 'chickens' out and either naturally runs wide or brakes and 'sits the bike up' and runs wide anyway.
Street
The problem is; the majority of motorcycle riders aren't confident enough with their machines. For example the lean angle which the rider thinks is the absolute maximum is a lot higher than the bike is actually capable of.
However, when you're on a bike and the bend you've entered is suddenly getting tighter and tighter, it's an experienced or very confident rider that leans further and further still to achieve the right balance. More often than not, the rider 'chickens' out and either naturally runs wide or brakes and 'sits the bike up' and runs wide anyway.
Street
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff