Age dates and specifications of classic and older.

[lowdrag]

I came across this on a museum site, and thought it might have been of interest:-

ANTIQUE - built before 31 December 1904
VETERAN - built between 1 January 1905 and 31 December 1918
VINTAGE - built between 1 January 1919 and 31 December 1930
POST-VINTAGE - built between 1 January 1931 and 31 December 1945
POST-45 - built between 1 January 1946 and 31 December 1960
POST-60 - built after 1 January 1961

Now I have never seen such a definition in print before and in some ways it seems to define "classic" as pre-1960 while at the same time not actually saying so. What is your opinion?

[Roy C]

lowdrag said:

I came across this on a museum site, and thought it might have been of interest:-

ANTIQUE - built before 31 December 1904
VETERAN - built between 1 January 1905 and 31 December 1918
VINTAGE - built between 1 January 1919 and 31 December 1930
POST-VINTAGE - built between 1 January 1931 and 31 December 1945
POST-45 - built between 1 January 1946 and 31 December 1960
POST-60 - built after 1 January 1961

Now I have never seen such a definition in print before and in some ways it seems to define "classic" as pre-1960 while at the same time not actually saying so. What is your opinion?

MSA Blue Book dates:
Veteran = before 1 Jan 1905
Edwardian = 1 Jan 1905 - 31 Dec 1918
Vintage = 1 Jan 1919 - 31 Dec 1930
PVT = 1 Jan 1931 - 31 Dec 1946

I imagine that they arrived at those particular dates thus: "Veteran" & "Edwardian" dates are those used by the VCC and "Vintage" & "PVT" by the VSCC. So they only really apply to Motorsport in the UK.

[john2443]

Might that have been an American museum? UK, Veteran is definitely pre 1905 and I'n fairly sure I've seen US cars on the run with Antique on the plates.

Classic is too complicated! I think it's probably 'Built before you were 15', which for me means 1972, which seems about right.

I'm willing to haggle over 15, may be 10, may be 18, but a 20 yr old now will think a 205 GTI is classic and a Morris Minor or E type is veteran!

[Hooli]

john2443 said:

but a 20 yr old now will think a 205 GTI is classic

I'm 35 & they aren't classics, they are just old st.

[Roy C]

Hooli said:

john2443 said:

but a 20 yr old now will think a 205 GTI is classic

I'm 35 & they aren't classics, they are just old st.

And they "self-recycle" too.

[//j17]

Hooli said:

john2443 said:

but a 20 yr old now will think a 205 GTI is classic

I'm 35 & they aren't classics, they are just old st.

So...the car that possibly defined motoring in the 80's (CAR magazines Car of The Decade) is just old st. Whatever. Let me know if you ever realise it's not 1977 any more and that time has kept moving on.

[lowdrag]

Actually I found it on the site of the Franschoek Motor Museum. But, turning to 1977, wasn't it about then that the Chrysler Alpine won the COTY? A bigger heap of horse dung I have never driven, with a gearchange even worse than that Maxi, if that is possible.

[Marlin45]

lowdrag said:

Actually I found it on the site of the Franschoek Motor Museum. But, turning to 1977, wasn't it about then that the Chrysler Alpine won the COTY? A bigger heap of horse dung I have never driven, with a gearchange even worse than that Maxi, if that is possible.

There was. The Talbot Alpine

[LordBretSinclair]

IMHO age is not the way to define a classic. Dictionaries will say something classic has a particular quality. I'm with Hooli - if a car was pants (or even just ordinary) why does it suddenly achieve "classic" status just because it has managed to survive a certain amount of years. I prefer to use the DVLA term "historic" as in the free road tax classification.

[Elderly]

LordBretSinclair said:

I prefer to use the DVLA term "historic"

Historic = "Famous or important in history".

[gforceg]

lowdrag said:

Actually I found it on the site of the Franschoek Motor Museum. But, turning to 1977, wasn't it about then that the Chrysler Alpine won the COTY? A bigger heap of horse dung I have never driven, with a gearchange even worse than that Maxi, if that is possible.

Yes, but in 1978 they made the 928 COTY and order was restored (in my 12 year old mind).

And, yes, 205 GTI and original Golf GTI are, or will be, classics, for your children. "Classic" isn't stuck in aspic.

G.

[restoman]

lowdrag said:

I came across this on a museum site, and thought it might have been of interest:-

ANTIQUE - built before 31 December 1904
VETERAN - built between 1 January 1905 and 31 December 1918
VINTAGE - built between 1 January 1919 and 31 December 1930
POST-VINTAGE - built between 1 January 1931 and 31 December 1945
POST-45 - built between 1 January 1946 and 31 December 1960
POST-60 - built after 1 January 1961

Now I have never seen such a definition in print before and in some ways it seems to define "classic" as pre-1960 while at the same time not actually saying so. What is your opinion?

Not quite sure how you manage to derive that 'classic' is pre 1960 from that list . . .

[Simes205]

The 205gti has been listed in the back of classic and Sportscar for over 10 years. Not that that proves it is a classic but come on......when I was growing up an MGB was a stty old rot box, now look at them.
205's are an appreciating asset, one recently sold for 14k.

[spoodler]

Occasionally I own a "classic" but most of my time I spend with old cars and motorbikes and my hobby/lifestyle is no less enjoyable for it!
Agreed that Veteran and Vintage should have a proper definition in the car world - vintage being from the "vintage years" (any good year?) although even that is debatable...
What does annoy is the constant debasement of the English language by marketing types. I am forever being asked "When will my Micra/Mondeo/Berlingo be a classic?", the question is actually "At what age will my car qualify for an insurance policy with the product name of Classic?" This then becomes part of everyday speech, much like "friend" on Facebook meaning "person I have never actually met"!
(Wanders off grumbling about the modern world...)

[Balmoral]

IMO anything can be termed as a 'Classic', age is nothing to do with it. A car does not achieve classic status by merely surviving and becoming old. There are many brand new cars that are 'Classic' and there are many old cars that aren't and very likely never will be (EG something like a Daewoo Espero 1.5GLXi).

As for the definitions posted up top, maybe that's what they say in the US, but 'Veteran' and 'Vintage' for example have been defined and well known for donkeys years, and they don't match the
chart posted.

I blame the media, as they seem to be incapable of describing any fifties or sixties car as anything else but 'Vintage'. EG "Here is Lord Jones with his Vintage Bentley" and a picture of an R type Continental

[droopsnoot]

Balmoral said:

I blame the media, as they seem to be incapable of describing any fifties or sixties car as anything else but 'Vintage'. EG "Here is Lord Jones with his Vintage Bentley" and a picture of an R type Continental

Yes, that's winding me up at the moment as well, in particular in the US media and from "normal" Americans as well. And not just 50s and 60s, I recall recently hearing someone talking about a "vintage MGB".

[Roy C]

droopsnoot said:

"vintage MGB"

Which, like a good wine, oxidizes.

droopsnoot also said:

"normal" Americans

[david.h]

Wasn't it Bill Boddy who said of "grey porridge" cars "what was a cheap & nasty car when new just becomes an old cheap & nasty car!

[benjj]

I believe that for a car to become a true 'classic' it must have two attributes: rarity/scarcity and having been in some way, erm, good!

I do not consider a 205GTi to be a classic just yet. A terrific old car definitely, stick one on a Footman James policy absolutely, but classic car no. It may get there, it may not, it won't make it any better or worse a car.

It is probably a generational thing. When I passed my test (1992) my chums were into 205s, Golf GTIs, Astra GSIs, breadvan Polos etc. That probably means that they'll never meet my own personal 'classic' classification but are all great motors.

My rough years for classics is pre 1975 but they do have to be special.

[woodytype S]

Classics do not have to be just old,they nave to be differant in some way.Im afaid 80s hatch backs will never be a classic as they all look the same.