New buyer - couple of questions
Discussion
Hi All,
I'm looking at Chimaera ownership and have been to look at a nice '95 400 which is on for £7k
The car has a fat history file which shows full TVR specialist service history, and also wishbone bush repairs and outrigger replacements last year.
Car has been a daily driver and has done 95k miles
My questions are:
Factoring in that the outriggers have been done and the bodywork has been resprayed - is the price good?
I couldn't see any receipts for any engine related work (except that the car had a new lump at 10k miles under warranty). I keep seeing things said about camshafts - should I be seeing a receipt for replacement and if it's not been done should I be factoring this in to my future spends?
How do you tell a good engine or it's wear? Just from the sound or are there any pointers or obvious checks?
Are there any good people to do a pre purchase inspection in the Readin area? Or any Chim 400 owners who could take me for a quick drive or show me their cars so I have more comparison!!
Thanks!
Craig
I'm looking at Chimaera ownership and have been to look at a nice '95 400 which is on for £7k
The car has a fat history file which shows full TVR specialist service history, and also wishbone bush repairs and outrigger replacements last year.
Car has been a daily driver and has done 95k miles
My questions are:
Factoring in that the outriggers have been done and the bodywork has been resprayed - is the price good?
I couldn't see any receipts for any engine related work (except that the car had a new lump at 10k miles under warranty). I keep seeing things said about camshafts - should I be seeing a receipt for replacement and if it's not been done should I be factoring this in to my future spends?
How do you tell a good engine or it's wear? Just from the sound or are there any pointers or obvious checks?
Are there any good people to do a pre purchase inspection in the Readin area? Or any Chim 400 owners who could take me for a quick drive or show me their cars so I have more comparison!!
Thanks!
Craig
I'd suggest you find your local TVR Car Club meeting and go to their next meeting.
You'll find people will happily talk you round their cars, let you try them for size and generally talk the legs off anyone willing to listen.
You'll get a feeling for whats good and whats not, what they cost - both to buy and to run, what they sound like, and what to look for.
And spend a day on here using the search function and some serious reading.
You'll find people will happily talk you round their cars, let you try them for size and generally talk the legs off anyone willing to listen.
You'll get a feeling for whats good and whats not, what they cost - both to buy and to run, what they sound like, and what to look for.
And spend a day on here using the search function and some serious reading.
The fact that it has been a daily driver may well mean that the cam shaft doesn't need doing.
It isn't usage that kills cam shafts - it's lack of usage. When an engine stands idle for more than a few days, the protective oil film on the cam surfaces will start to drain away gradually, eventually exposing the metal. The resulting tiny specs of corrosion will act line fine sand paper next time the engine is started, and each time this cycle is repeated the hard outer layer gets thinner. Once it wears through, the cam will wear very rapidly indeed.
But if the engine has been used frequently, and especially if the owner treats it sympathetically (letting the oil warm up before using high revs), then a cam shaft can go on and on with very little wear, despite the high mileage. I start to feel guilty if I've been unable to drive mine for a week or so.
So 95k miles doesn't necessarily mean the cam shaft needs doing. You could get it dynoed and see what power it's producing, and also what the shape of its power curve is like. That may tell you whether your cam shaft is healthy, as well as whether the engine is fuelling correctly.
I was told that my 450 sounded tappety (which it does) and that this could be a sign of cam shaft wear, so I went to Surrey Rolling Road and it gave a rather surprising 276 bhp. Charlie jumped out of it and said "nothing wrong with that cam"; in fact he speculated that it's already had a non-standard replacement.
It isn't usage that kills cam shafts - it's lack of usage. When an engine stands idle for more than a few days, the protective oil film on the cam surfaces will start to drain away gradually, eventually exposing the metal. The resulting tiny specs of corrosion will act line fine sand paper next time the engine is started, and each time this cycle is repeated the hard outer layer gets thinner. Once it wears through, the cam will wear very rapidly indeed.
But if the engine has been used frequently, and especially if the owner treats it sympathetically (letting the oil warm up before using high revs), then a cam shaft can go on and on with very little wear, despite the high mileage. I start to feel guilty if I've been unable to drive mine for a week or so.
So 95k miles doesn't necessarily mean the cam shaft needs doing. You could get it dynoed and see what power it's producing, and also what the shape of its power curve is like. That may tell you whether your cam shaft is healthy, as well as whether the engine is fuelling correctly.
I was told that my 450 sounded tappety (which it does) and that this could be a sign of cam shaft wear, so I went to Surrey Rolling Road and it gave a rather surprising 276 bhp. Charlie jumped out of it and said "nothing wrong with that cam"; in fact he speculated that it's already had a non-standard replacement.
Wow, thanks for all your help so far everyone! I think I've found the right group of owners - what a great bunch!
A couple more questions if I may:
1) What's the cost of dyno'ing an engine?
2) If the camshaft does need doing, what's an average cost for that?
3) I noticed the boot corner by the fuel filler is not sitting flush. I guess this is where someone has shut the boot without the filler cap being on properly... Is this easy to fix?
Thanks!
A couple more questions if I may:
1) What's the cost of dyno'ing an engine?
2) If the camshaft does need doing, what's an average cost for that?
3) I noticed the boot corner by the fuel filler is not sitting flush. I guess this is where someone has shut the boot without the filler cap being on properly... Is this easy to fix?
Thanks!
CraigAuk said:
1) What's the cost of dyno'ing an engine?
For £40 Charlie at Surrey Rolling Road can give you a good idea of the health of your engine and if anything needs looking at. He has plenty of good press on here and knows TVR's very well.
http://www.surreyrollingroad.co.uk/
2) If the camshaft does need doing, what's an average cost for that?
Couldn't be 100% sure but when I enquired about a slightly racier cam for my 450 I was told by a few people to expect a bill of £1200-1500 depending on where it was done and what else I chose to have done or was found to need replacing during the process. I will probably go for a MC1 or stealth from V8 Developments following plenty of threads on here giving them both a strong thumbsup.
http://www.v8developments.co.uk/
3) I noticed the boot corner by the fuel filler is not sitting flush. I guess this is where someone has shut the boot without the filler cap being on properly... Is this easy to fix?
Can't help with this but the bodywork on these cars is hand fitted so they all have their minor foibles that you learn to live with.
Thanks!
For £40 Charlie at Surrey Rolling Road can give you a good idea of the health of your engine and if anything needs looking at. He has plenty of good press on here and knows TVR's very well.
http://www.surreyrollingroad.co.uk/
2) If the camshaft does need doing, what's an average cost for that?
Couldn't be 100% sure but when I enquired about a slightly racier cam for my 450 I was told by a few people to expect a bill of £1200-1500 depending on where it was done and what else I chose to have done or was found to need replacing during the process. I will probably go for a MC1 or stealth from V8 Developments following plenty of threads on here giving them both a strong thumbsup.
http://www.v8developments.co.uk/
3) I noticed the boot corner by the fuel filler is not sitting flush. I guess this is where someone has shut the boot without the filler cap being on properly... Is this easy to fix?
Can't help with this but the bodywork on these cars is hand fitted so they all have their minor foibles that you learn to live with.
Thanks!
It is all down to condition, but £7k for a 95 with that sort of mileage sounds quite steep to me?
You dont mean '97 and this car do you? http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3798752.htm
You dont mean '97 and this car do you? http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3798752.htm
Hi CraigAuk. I 've had dealings with Calcot Cars and found them excellent. I saw the car whilst buying another from them. In fact he was asking my oppinion on the car and price etc not having dealt with TVR's before. It was a bit scary as the car initially looked identical to mine, colour etc. It's been resprayed possible to remove stone chips as I'm not convinced its a complete respray. Its been re-trimed but not completely, seats etc. Generally a quick look confirmed that it's a car that has been in regular use. If he puts a warrently on it at that price OK, but I think you still might have room for manoeuvre around that price. Having said that the dealer is a top bloke to deal with and you get what you pay for. Good luck. John042.
CraigAuk said:
Looks very tidy.It's all about;
1. The quality of the repaint - check this VERY carefully and look for micro-blistering. Ask who did the paint.
2. Chassis. This is the most important thing as I am sure you know. If it has a great chassis then that makes it worth the money.
I'd personally hold out for a "2nd gen" 1997 onwards car. Easy to spot they have the button under the wing mirror to open the door, and a slightly different lower dash panel.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2012...
worth a look / haggle.
1997 TVR Chimaera 4.0 HC 2dr Convertible
Facelift model with beige leather interior, Leven Controls kit, Tax Sept 12 MOT Apr 13, 2 New keys and Remote fobs, Recent Service, Discs and pads all round, Power steering, 500 model wheels, 6 CD changer, Always garaged, Good tyres, Good bodywork/chassis. £7,995
worth a look / haggle.
1997 TVR Chimaera 4.0 HC 2dr Convertible
Facelift model with beige leather interior, Leven Controls kit, Tax Sept 12 MOT Apr 13, 2 New keys and Remote fobs, Recent Service, Discs and pads all round, Power steering, 500 model wheels, 6 CD changer, Always garaged, Good tyres, Good bodywork/chassis. £7,995
Edited by edo on Monday 21st May 13:02
edo said:
1. The quality of the repaint - check this VERY carefully and look for micro-blistering. Ask who did the paint.
I gather the paintwork was done by a local bodyshop that they use - but I'd have to confirm that. It was repainted to cover blistering of the old paint and the usual stone chips. It looked pretty good, but I'd give it a close inspection.edo said:
2. Chassis. This is the most important thing as I am sure you know. If it has a great chassis then that makes it worth the money.
He didn't know anything much about outriggers when I'd emailed him (not a TVR man, so I guess that's understandable) but looking through the 'history file' when I visited I could see a bill for new outriggers in April 2011 (for £1.8k) and a bill just before for a load of wishbone work (new bushes maybe?) which came to around £1.2k and had the chassis rot advisory.The work was carried out at, I believe, Fernhurst Motor Co. (my memory may be wrong on this - had a pint since then!)
So, I assume the rolling gear is pretty sound
edo said:
I'd personally hold out for a "2nd gen" 1997 onwards car. Easy to spot they have the button under the wing mirror to open the door, and a slightly different lower dash panel.
Any reason in particular, other than the fact they are newer?Thanks for all your help!
John042 said:
Hi CraigAuk. I 've had dealings with Calcot Cars and found them excellent. I saw the car whilst buying another from them. In fact he was asking my oppinion on the car and price etc not having dealt with TVR's before. It was a bit scary as the car initially looked identical to mine, colour etc. It's been resprayed possible to remove stone chips as I'm not convinced its a complete respray. Its been re-trimed but not completely, seats etc. Generally a quick look confirmed that it's a car that has been in regular use. If he puts a warrently on it at that price OK, but I think you still might have room for manoeuvre around that price. Having said that the dealer is a top bloke to deal with and you get what you pay for. Good luck. John042.
Hi John042,That's good to know. He seemed like a nice bloke (and the garage is 10 mins up the road so it was a good excuse to have a look). His feedback on the web seems good too.
He's not offering a warranty due to the age, which is slightly worrying and for me a good reason to beat down the price. A bit of initial querying makes me think he's not in too much of a hurry to shift it (unless it's still there in August) so I don't know how far he'd manuouver.
He will throw in the cover he had on it, which is an outdoor breathable cover. It's also got a battery conditioner wired in, which comes with the car.
I got the feeling, from searching/comparing that it's probably about £500 - £1,000 over the price it should be... but the respray and nearly new outriggers may justify an uplift?
Craig
They tweaked a few things. Notably:
newer nose
cerbera style buttons under mirrors to open doors
changes to dash panel and controls
there are other changes too that the beards on here will be able to detail better than I!
Get yourself a copy of the steve heath Griff and Chim bible - masses of info in there on what to look for and useful for when you have one too!
newer nose
cerbera style buttons under mirrors to open doors
changes to dash panel and controls
there are other changes too that the beards on here will be able to detail better than I!
Get yourself a copy of the steve heath Griff and Chim bible - masses of info in there on what to look for and useful for when you have one too!
Hi again CraigAuk. You've obviously had a chance to get a closer look than I had time for. I must admit first impressions of the garage had me a little wary? However it seems a honest enough set up. I seem to remember a comment about the part respray. The figure of £500 - &1000 was about what I thought at the time without any warrenty. Have you had a chance to drive it yet? Most of the boxes appear to be ticked, ie chassis, outriggers etc. The other later one posted looks good but costs more. £1000 plus what you can haggle would give you a cushion against any post sale problems though. Cheers John042.
It is a slight pity that there's no warranty offered, but it's worth remembering that he's still a commercial dealer so he can't wriggle out of his statutory responsibilities under the Sale of Goods Act. That doesn't mean he has to fix everything, but the car still has to be fit for purpose etc - and you don't get that protection with a private sale.
I think on balance it's not a bad asking price. Sure, it's high mileage - but it's had its outriggers done and has had a respray. Assuming both of those jobs were done to an acceptable standard then it enhances the value of the car.
There's always movement in the price. I'm quite sure you could get him down to £6,500 after a bit of haggling, and that starts to look like a nice price.
There's a reasonable chance the cam shaft will still have plenty of life in it; otherwise I guess you're looking at somewhere between £1200 to £1500. Charlie at SRR charges £40 for a dyno run at the weekend - money well spent IMHO.
I think on balance it's not a bad asking price. Sure, it's high mileage - but it's had its outriggers done and has had a respray. Assuming both of those jobs were done to an acceptable standard then it enhances the value of the car.
There's always movement in the price. I'm quite sure you could get him down to £6,500 after a bit of haggling, and that starts to look like a nice price.
There's a reasonable chance the cam shaft will still have plenty of life in it; otherwise I guess you're looking at somewhere between £1200 to £1500. Charlie at SRR charges £40 for a dyno run at the weekend - money well spent IMHO.
Opp. This looks tidy and in your price bracket?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TVR-Chimaera-4-0-Convert...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TVR-Chimaera-4-0-Convert...
CraigAuk said:
Thanks for all your help so far everyone!
Big thanks to TVR500Morgan who took me for a spin in his TVR Chim '95 and made me want one even more.... Even the weather gods are telling me to buy one!
Your welcome don't be afraid to travel either if you see one that looks good. Big thanks to TVR500Morgan who took me for a spin in his TVR Chim '95 and made me want one even more.... Even the weather gods are telling me to buy one!
Just as a bit of 'closure' on this post - I dodged a bullet!
Borrowed the car from the dealership for an hour this afternoon and took it around the corner to Calvin's (TVR500Morgan) garage.
They popped it over the inspection pit and waved me in for a look. Outriggers, although replaced in 2011 by a 'specialist', were a shoddy job - pigeon poo welding, missing welds around the top of the join, silicone sealer in places, and lots of general chassis rust.
Also, the bonnet was rather heavy. All just seemed a bit of a headache, especially with that mileage and for £7k.
So, I'm back in the market for a Chim between £7 - 8k (although might hold out for Calvin's which he's planning to sell shortly)
And the moral of the story: Even though the history file/paperwork makes it look like the rolling gear should be in top condition, it always pays to check.
Borrowed the car from the dealership for an hour this afternoon and took it around the corner to Calvin's (TVR500Morgan) garage.
They popped it over the inspection pit and waved me in for a look. Outriggers, although replaced in 2011 by a 'specialist', were a shoddy job - pigeon poo welding, missing welds around the top of the join, silicone sealer in places, and lots of general chassis rust.
Also, the bonnet was rather heavy. All just seemed a bit of a headache, especially with that mileage and for £7k.
So, I'm back in the market for a Chim between £7 - 8k (although might hold out for Calvin's which he's planning to sell shortly)
And the moral of the story: Even though the history file/paperwork makes it look like the rolling gear should be in top condition, it always pays to check.
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff