The sub £3K XJR
Discussion
Always liked the X308 XJR, and with prices down to £2K and a bit upwards, they sure make for a tempting car.
Has anyone else bought in the price range and want to give their opinions/experiences ? I checked the insurance today and it was actually very reasonable next to what they want for running a dog of an E36 BMW Touring and I do only a few miles so even the extreme thirst of a supercharged V8 isn't crushing the dream. Black with the Penta alloys is an ideal spec, and while I'd prefer the black leather too, this one on PH does sound nice. Feel free to talk me into or out of buying with your experiences pleae.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3794035.htm
Has anyone else bought in the price range and want to give their opinions/experiences ? I checked the insurance today and it was actually very reasonable next to what they want for running a dog of an E36 BMW Touring and I do only a few miles so even the extreme thirst of a supercharged V8 isn't crushing the dream. Black with the Penta alloys is an ideal spec, and while I'd prefer the black leather too, this one on PH does sound nice. Feel free to talk me into or out of buying with your experiences pleae.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3794035.htm
Got mine 3 years ago with 123000 miles on it and have put on another 15000 smiles since, including 2 'Ring trips and numerous track days. the only thing i had go was a head gasket, which could go on anything at any time, i took the opportunity to have the tentioners and waterpump replaced at the same time to furure proof. All in all a great car to waft about in but, although great fun, not really suited to the track! Jaguar track events are ideal if you want to be at the front of the grid!!!
this looks a good purchase, all important tentioners are done and if it has a good history then i would be tempted to take a punt. Black on black always makes the interior look cramped, i think the lighter colour brightens it up nicely. Tyres can be an issue, specially the rear, and i have found Avon ZZ3 to be more than a match for the specified Pirelli's and half the cost.
Check for rust at the bottom of the front wings, rear arches and at the base of the rear screen.
Any knocking from the rear end under accelleration should also be invesigated.
As its not an everyday car for me i still enjoy getting it out of the garage for an 'enthusiastic' drive.
Dont be scared to nail it in 'sport' when test driving, this should engage 1st gear and even in the dry you should get a bit of a slap from the Traction control. Switch this off to leave rubber! traction control os probably my only gripe with this model, to me it seems a bit too safe, cutting in when you dont reall want it too. In the dry it is an awesome car to comfortably slide out but in the wet you should rely on TC rather than your tyres!!
Go take the plunge iven if it is just to get it out of your system, you wont lose money on it at that price.![](http://thumbsnap.com/sc/HY9EH22l.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/Glwafh2T" Target="_blank">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/Glwafh2T.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/Glwafh2T" Target="_blank">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/Glwafh2T.jpg)
this looks a good purchase, all important tentioners are done and if it has a good history then i would be tempted to take a punt. Black on black always makes the interior look cramped, i think the lighter colour brightens it up nicely. Tyres can be an issue, specially the rear, and i have found Avon ZZ3 to be more than a match for the specified Pirelli's and half the cost.
Check for rust at the bottom of the front wings, rear arches and at the base of the rear screen.
Any knocking from the rear end under accelleration should also be invesigated.
As its not an everyday car for me i still enjoy getting it out of the garage for an 'enthusiastic' drive.
Dont be scared to nail it in 'sport' when test driving, this should engage 1st gear and even in the dry you should get a bit of a slap from the Traction control. Switch this off to leave rubber! traction control os probably my only gripe with this model, to me it seems a bit too safe, cutting in when you dont reall want it too. In the dry it is an awesome car to comfortably slide out but in the wet you should rely on TC rather than your tyres!!
Go take the plunge iven if it is just to get it out of your system, you wont lose money on it at that price.
If the timing chains were replaced anytime after 2005 then it should have the all important mk3 metal bodied tensioners fitted. If you have an invoice for the work then you need to see part numbers C2A1512G and C2A1511G. There should also be 4 replacemnt bolts on the same invoice.
If not sure remove the rh cam cover and have a look at the tensioner under the short exhaust cam chain. If red or cream plastic bodied you'll need to have them changed. If metal bodied no need for concern.
Check very carefully under the wheelarches behind both the front shockabsorbers for corrosion. There is a reinforcing plate where the front subframe V mount joins the body. Some cars, but not all are corroding badly here and that'll mean an MOT fail and expensive trip to the welders.
I'd suggest you budget for a "sealed for life" gearbox and diff oil change. Both are a bit tricky to do but are DIYable. If not an indy should charge no more than three hours plus parts.
Check front tyres very carefully for uneven wear. Classic Jaguar problem of wishbone bush failure causing excess negative camber that leads to excessive wear on the inner edges. Listen for clonks from both the front and rear over bumps - usually means worn bushes.
Gearchanges should be seamless and silent. Drive should engage smoothly without any hesitation. If not suspect gearbox lubrication failure and walk.
A hard driven XJR will eat tyres, brakes, fuel and suspension components. If it's a good one though and it's looked after it should be pretty reliable. People are almost giving old XJs away at the moment and there's plenty to choose from. Have a look on carsandclassic - loads for sale on there.
If not sure remove the rh cam cover and have a look at the tensioner under the short exhaust cam chain. If red or cream plastic bodied you'll need to have them changed. If metal bodied no need for concern.
Check very carefully under the wheelarches behind both the front shockabsorbers for corrosion. There is a reinforcing plate where the front subframe V mount joins the body. Some cars, but not all are corroding badly here and that'll mean an MOT fail and expensive trip to the welders.
I'd suggest you budget for a "sealed for life" gearbox and diff oil change. Both are a bit tricky to do but are DIYable. If not an indy should charge no more than three hours plus parts.
Check front tyres very carefully for uneven wear. Classic Jaguar problem of wishbone bush failure causing excess negative camber that leads to excessive wear on the inner edges. Listen for clonks from both the front and rear over bumps - usually means worn bushes.
Gearchanges should be seamless and silent. Drive should engage smoothly without any hesitation. If not suspect gearbox lubrication failure and walk.
A hard driven XJR will eat tyres, brakes, fuel and suspension components. If it's a good one though and it's looked after it should be pretty reliable. People are almost giving old XJs away at the moment and there's plenty to choose from. Have a look on carsandclassic - loads for sale on there.
Steve,
not questioning your vast knowledge but are the 'sealed for life' boxes reserved for the N/A Xj8's. i thought the XjR's had the MB box. I have seen somewhere thet an MB dealer will charge about £80 for an oil and filter change.
I bow to your superior knowledge in clarification,
Darren
not questioning your vast knowledge but are the 'sealed for life' boxes reserved for the N/A Xj8's. i thought the XjR's had the MB box. I have seen somewhere thet an MB dealer will charge about £80 for an oil and filter change.
I bow to your superior knowledge in clarification,
Darren
HaylingJag said:
Steve,
not questioning your vast knowledge but are the 'sealed for life' boxes reserved for the N/A Xj8's. i thought the XjR's had the MB box. I have seen somewhere thet an MB dealer will charge about £80 for an oil and filter change.
I bow to your superior knowledge in clarification,
Darren
Different marketing strategy for the same gearbox - you're quite right the supercharged XJ/KR's do have the stronger MB gearbox rather then the ZF one on the n/a V8's and yes it's possible to change the oil on both. I believe MB do recommend a change for their own cars fitted with the shared gearbox but Jaguar have always insisted it's not necessary - hence the "sealed for life" approach.not questioning your vast knowledge but are the 'sealed for life' boxes reserved for the N/A Xj8's. i thought the XjR's had the MB box. I have seen somewhere thet an MB dealer will charge about £80 for an oil and filter change.
I bow to your superior knowledge in clarification,
Darren
From an engineering point of view however it's vital IMO. However implying that the box is so good it does not ever need a oil change and therefore lowers the cost of ownership is nothing more the a triumph of Marketing over Enginering and should be ignored. New oil will always be cheaper than a new gearbox.
Changing the oil in the MB box is an easier procedure than the ZF one, you have to buy a dipstick 'tho and the oil used is standard Dexron 111 rather than the Esso/Mobil LT oil in the ZF 'box. It's interesting to see that on all the previous X300 cars using standard Dexron 111 across the whole range Jaguar required a change at 30k intervals. The actual oil spec has not changed at all it's just the marketing strategy aimed at reducing servicing costs.
Watch for head gasket problems - I bought my 99 XJR a couple of years ago, and last summer suffered with a misfire, emissions off the chart, and oil in the coolant.
Had the work done at Scole engineering, brilliant job, just under £3k (inc a tyre for MOT) and the heads were skimmed and a small about of "flow work" done at Scholar Race Engines...
Came back a proper flying machine.
I've had the gearbox fluid done at Paul Stephens Jag specialist - well worth doing for peace of mind - IIRC bill was about £250 all in for the fluid, filters & labour.
Don't let my tales of big bills put you off, there's nothing that comes close to "grace, space & pace" for the money - mine owes me about £7k including purchase of car & all works done - recently had upgraded EBC discs & pads fitted, and I don't begrudge a penny of it - there's nothing else I can think of that looks as good, goes as fast, has an auto box, seats four, decent sized boot etc, for anything approaching the same budget.
Get one bought - if you are near East Suffolk & fancy a go, drop me a line.
Chris
Had the work done at Scole engineering, brilliant job, just under £3k (inc a tyre for MOT) and the heads were skimmed and a small about of "flow work" done at Scholar Race Engines...
Came back a proper flying machine.
I've had the gearbox fluid done at Paul Stephens Jag specialist - well worth doing for peace of mind - IIRC bill was about £250 all in for the fluid, filters & labour.
Don't let my tales of big bills put you off, there's nothing that comes close to "grace, space & pace" for the money - mine owes me about £7k including purchase of car & all works done - recently had upgraded EBC discs & pads fitted, and I don't begrudge a penny of it - there's nothing else I can think of that looks as good, goes as fast, has an auto box, seats four, decent sized boot etc, for anything approaching the same budget.
Get one bought - if you are near East Suffolk & fancy a go, drop me a line.
Chris
I bought my 2001 XJR 4 years ago & it's an awesome car-hysterically fast & still manages to have a smooth ride for such a sporting car-doesn't crash over potholes like some of the firmer German cars.
Just use your common sense when viewing any XJR-you can 'feel' if it's a dog or well-looked after when you drive it & view it.
Front lower rear wishbone balljoints wear out-they take the full weight of the car & will creak/clonk when worn. The joints can be replaced but you need a powerful hydraulic press to push them into the wishbone. Otherwise you have to buy the complete wishbone-Jaguar charge about £200 each & the aftermarket suppliers around £70. Tyres should be in good condition & with no uneven wear patterns-they're not cheap so look for a car with a good set.
Check underneath for corrosion-especially those front V-mounts. These are fast cars & some will have accident damage repairs which may not have been done properly, allowing rust to break through later.
Clonks from the rear are suspension bushes & wear in the final drive-the XJR was not given an uprated final drive & it doesn't have a big margin of tolerance for repeated full-throttle 1st gear standing starts.
Other than that they're great cars-just use your common sense when viewing & look for evidence of timing chain tensioner replacement etc.
Just use your common sense when viewing any XJR-you can 'feel' if it's a dog or well-looked after when you drive it & view it.
Front lower rear wishbone balljoints wear out-they take the full weight of the car & will creak/clonk when worn. The joints can be replaced but you need a powerful hydraulic press to push them into the wishbone. Otherwise you have to buy the complete wishbone-Jaguar charge about £200 each & the aftermarket suppliers around £70. Tyres should be in good condition & with no uneven wear patterns-they're not cheap so look for a car with a good set.
Check underneath for corrosion-especially those front V-mounts. These are fast cars & some will have accident damage repairs which may not have been done properly, allowing rust to break through later.
Clonks from the rear are suspension bushes & wear in the final drive-the XJR was not given an uprated final drive & it doesn't have a big margin of tolerance for repeated full-throttle 1st gear standing starts.
Other than that they're great cars-just use your common sense when viewing & look for evidence of timing chain tensioner replacement etc.
I bought one for £3.5k a few years back. I bought it, ran it for a year and sold it for what I paid for it. It needed a service and 2 tyres by then.
It was in fine condition, the only issue I ever had was that very occasionally a gearbox fault warning would come on if the car had been left for a few weeks, I always assumed this was because the battery was slightly low. One of my friends borrowed it for a few weeks and managed to flood it, and then didn't know the correct re-start procedure. As with lots of other modern cars do not run it for a short amount of time, e.g. to move it off the drive.
Try a few, one I test drove had something quite badly wrong with it, it just had no power. They should light up the TC on dry tarmac up to about 60mph. Oh; mine had the correct pirelli Pzero tyres on it and was a bit of a handful in the wet. I don't mind saying I was actually a bit intimidated by it, after one particularly fun/scary moment I decided to just leave the TC on when it rained.
Actually, (and I am aware that this is an unpopular opinion, in particular the friends I leant it to think I'm quite mad) I didn't like it that much. At low speeds the ride was too pattery and busy to be comfortable (I blame the oversize alloys) and in the twisties you could feel the weight and length of the car working against it, making it feel quite unwieldy. My 328 makes a much better car for that sort of thing. On faster, more open roads it was good fun but the opertunities for that are fairly rare and besides I ended up going faster then I was comfortable with. In my humble opinion a nice 4 litre XJ8 is a better car. Effortless, smooth, relaxing...everything you want from a Jaguar. If you want a sports car or something fast in a straight line get an E36 M3 or something. Me? I bought a S1 XJ6.
It was in fine condition, the only issue I ever had was that very occasionally a gearbox fault warning would come on if the car had been left for a few weeks, I always assumed this was because the battery was slightly low. One of my friends borrowed it for a few weeks and managed to flood it, and then didn't know the correct re-start procedure. As with lots of other modern cars do not run it for a short amount of time, e.g. to move it off the drive.
Try a few, one I test drove had something quite badly wrong with it, it just had no power. They should light up the TC on dry tarmac up to about 60mph. Oh; mine had the correct pirelli Pzero tyres on it and was a bit of a handful in the wet. I don't mind saying I was actually a bit intimidated by it, after one particularly fun/scary moment I decided to just leave the TC on when it rained.
Actually, (and I am aware that this is an unpopular opinion, in particular the friends I leant it to think I'm quite mad) I didn't like it that much. At low speeds the ride was too pattery and busy to be comfortable (I blame the oversize alloys) and in the twisties you could feel the weight and length of the car working against it, making it feel quite unwieldy. My 328 makes a much better car for that sort of thing. On faster, more open roads it was good fun but the opertunities for that are fairly rare and besides I ended up going faster then I was comfortable with. In my humble opinion a nice 4 litre XJ8 is a better car. Effortless, smooth, relaxing...everything you want from a Jaguar. If you want a sports car or something fast in a straight line get an E36 M3 or something. Me? I bought a S1 XJ6.
Edited by varsas on Tuesday 29th May 19:27
[quote=Big Rod]I just bought one unseen. (OK, I know I know! But it had 12 months MOT.)
Anyway, the engine's rattly but I'd budgeted for a tensioner replacement anyway.
Know the car you bought. The owner told me it had the new tensioners fitted due to the age of the car. I offered him £1500
But he didn't reply. I'm sure it'll be a cracker when fixed
Anyway, the engine's rattly but I'd budgeted for a tensioner replacement anyway.
Know the car you bought. The owner told me it had the new tensioners fitted due to the age of the car. I offered him £1500
But he didn't reply. I'm sure it'll be a cracker when fixed
Well, the tensioners were shot to hell. New top set fitted now and it's as quiet as a mouse.
Mechanic gave it a once over and for by a few little niggles it's a sound car.
I nearly bought it last October from the PO to the PO but I didn't like him so left it.
Need to get the EML attended to, (upstream lambda apparently), and the geometry set up as it's a bit 'wandery' for my liking and I think it's a keeper.
Mechanic gave it a once over and for by a few little niggles it's a sound car.
I nearly bought it last October from the PO to the PO but I didn't like him so left it.
Need to get the EML attended to, (upstream lambda apparently), and the geometry set up as it's a bit 'wandery' for my liking and I think it's a keeper.
chris.mapey said:
Watch for head gasket problems - I bought my 99 XJR a couple of years ago, and last summer suffered with a misfire, emissions off the chart, and oil in the coolant.
Had the work done at Scole engineering, brilliant job, just under £3k (inc a tyre for MOT) and the heads were skimmed and a small about of "flow work" done at Scholar Race Engines...
Came back a proper flying machine.
I've had the gearbox fluid done at Paul Stephens Jag specialist - well worth doing for peace of mind - IIRC bill was about £250 all in for the fluid, filters & labour.
Don't let my tales of big bills put you off, there's nothing that comes close to "grace, space & pace" for the money - mine owes me about £7k including purchase of car & all works done - recently had upgraded EBC discs & pads fitted, and I don't begrudge a penny of it - there's nothing else I can think of that looks as good, goes as fast, has an auto box, seats four, decent sized boot etc, for anything approaching the same budget.
Get one bought - if you are near East Suffolk & fancy a go, drop me a line.
Chris
Scole Engineering did the Head Gasket on my 99 XJR a couple of years back too!Had the work done at Scole engineering, brilliant job, just under £3k (inc a tyre for MOT) and the heads were skimmed and a small about of "flow work" done at Scholar Race Engines...
Came back a proper flying machine.
I've had the gearbox fluid done at Paul Stephens Jag specialist - well worth doing for peace of mind - IIRC bill was about £250 all in for the fluid, filters & labour.
Don't let my tales of big bills put you off, there's nothing that comes close to "grace, space & pace" for the money - mine owes me about £7k including purchase of car & all works done - recently had upgraded EBC discs & pads fitted, and I don't begrudge a penny of it - there's nothing else I can think of that looks as good, goes as fast, has an auto box, seats four, decent sized boot etc, for anything approaching the same budget.
Get one bought - if you are near East Suffolk & fancy a go, drop me a line.
Chris
Once I got it back, I'd fallen out of love with it because of all the hassle and the fact that it never felt like a truly cherished example.
They truly are fabulous machines, but my advice to anyone would be to buy the best you can afford.
slippery said:
Scole Engineering did the Head Gasket on my 99 XJR a couple of years back too!
Once I got it back, I'd fallen out of love with it because of all the hassle and the fact that it never felt like a truly cherished example.
They truly are fabulous machines, but my advice to anyone would be to buy the best you can afford.
Slippery, I think you are right about buying the best you can afford but theproblem I have is that prices are all over the place and just because a car has an inflated price does not necessarily make it a good un.Once I got it back, I'd fallen out of love with it because of all the hassle and the fact that it never felt like a truly cherished example.
They truly are fabulous machines, but my advice to anyone would be to buy the best you can afford.
chancha said:
slippery said:
Scole Engineering did the Head Gasket on my 99 XJR a couple of years back too!
Once I got it back, I'd fallen out of love with it because of all the hassle and the fact that it never felt like a truly cherished example.
They truly are fabulous machines, but my advice to anyone would be to buy the best you can afford.
Slippery, I think you are right about buying the best you can afford but theproblem I have is that prices are all over the place and just because a car has an inflated price does not necessarily make it a good un.Once I got it back, I'd fallen out of love with it because of all the hassle and the fact that it never felt like a truly cherished example.
They truly are fabulous machines, but my advice to anyone would be to buy the best you can afford.
Buy one from the driveway of a very large house, from a gent who has owned from from new or nearly new and has his new XF/XJ in the garage, for the extra few quid you would have to pay for such an example. A bit idealistic, but I'm sure you get my drift.
slippery said:
I wouldn't argue with that at all. What I should have said was, don't do what I did and make an impulsive bid on an eBay car!
Buy one from the driveway of a very large house, from a gent who has owned from from new or nearly new and has his new XF/XJ in the garage, for the extra few quid you would have to pay for such an example. A bit idealistic, but I'm sure you get my drift.
We can but dream...Buy one from the driveway of a very large house, from a gent who has owned from from new or nearly new and has his new XF/XJ in the garage, for the extra few quid you would have to pay for such an example. A bit idealistic, but I'm sure you get my drift.
Big Rod said:
Well, the tensioners were shot to hell. New top set fitted now and it's as quiet as a mouse.
Mechanic gave it a once over and for by a few little niggles it's a sound car.
I nearly bought it last October from the PO to the PO but I didn't like him so left it.
Need to get the EML attended to, (upstream lambda apparently), and the geometry set up as it's a bit 'wandery' for my liking and I think it's a keeper.
Good news about the tensioners. Mechanic gave it a once over and for by a few little niggles it's a sound car.
I nearly bought it last October from the PO to the PO but I didn't like him so left it.
Need to get the EML attended to, (upstream lambda apparently), and the geometry set up as it's a bit 'wandery' for my liking and I think it's a keeper.
XJ's on larger diameter wheels and low profile tyres are a bit prone to tramlining on some road surfaces. Before I ditched the 17" wheels and went down to 16" ones even when perfectly set up there is a worn and groved section of the A12 my previous XJ8 used to wriggle about like a cut worm on.
I'd have a Hunter lazer alignment check done first by somebody who knows how to use the equipment properly, but this'll not usually show up any suspension weaknesses that only manifest under load. If the static alignment is OK wishbone bushes and/or shagged tyres would be prime suspects. You'll need the Jaguar spring compressor which you can hire from the JEC and a press or friendly machine shop to change bushes. If you're pulling it all apart I'd take the opportunity to replace everything, bushes, ball joints, TCAs and tie rods. British Car Parts sell a package of everything you'll need
You could try swapping tyres front to rear and experimenting within the range of recommended tyre pressures to see if that makes any difference.
Aye Steve, I'll have a tinker about with it.
The garage that did the tensioners had a look underneath it. They're pretty hot on suspension and the like, (they build and prep race cars), so I trust them.
They reckonned the suspension was in fine order so the next thing to do is get the static geometry set.
I'll take on board what you said about the under load thing and I am a little suspicious.
As long as it doesn't throw me off the road into the scenery in reverse in the meantime I'll get it sorted one way or another.
The garage that did the tensioners had a look underneath it. They're pretty hot on suspension and the like, (they build and prep race cars), so I trust them.
They reckonned the suspension was in fine order so the next thing to do is get the static geometry set.
I'll take on board what you said about the under load thing and I am a little suspicious.
As long as it doesn't throw me off the road into the scenery in reverse in the meantime I'll get it sorted one way or another.
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