997 c2s advice?

[barrieeld]

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=1...

I love the colour but miles are a bit high what's your thoughts?

is it worth 17k?

[mollytherocker]

Without a first hand inspection, it would be a total guess. And my guess is no.

MTR

Edited by mollytherocker on Wednesday 23 May 00:27

[barrieeld]

No? Is this engine fragile to high miles? By the look of it has other expensive consumables like ceramic brakes..when should they be changed? How good are the gearbox and clutch for miles wise?

[Terminator X]

Cheap for a 997 imho albeit colour is weird and miles are high ...

TX.

[Rockster]

barrieeld said:

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=1...

I love the colour but miles are a bit high what's your thoughts?

is it worth 17k?

High miles provided the car drives well, the engine sounds good, runs good, etc. can be a sign the car has been taken care of, has received the kind of use that is 'easy' on the car, the engine, and running gear, and could likely go another 139K miles with no big problems.

You need to subject the car to a very thorough used car check out and test ride/drive. You need to spend time in the car first as a passenger then as a driver. The route wants to cover a variety of roads so you can experience the car in as wide variety of driving scenarios as possible.

You want to hear the cold engine start, assume idle speed (should be elevated a bit) and then as the engine warms up the idle smooths out and slows down. You need to be familiar with how these engines sound of course.

Be sure at cold engine start the A/C is off, and all warning lights (especially the CEL) come on then go off as the engine cranks/starts/runs.

As the engine idles, warms up, you want to carefully all the time listen to the engine -- from all points on the compass -- for any scary or just troubling noises.

Then have the seller take you on a 15 mile test ride. Back at teh starting point you take the car out over the same route and drive the car the same way.

The engine should pull smoothly, cleanly from idle to red line and it should take a high speed gear shift followed by full throttle to make sure it can do this for an 'extended' period of time.

Back at the starting point continue to let the now thoroughly hot engine idle. Again it should remain fairly quiet, as quiet as these engines can be when healthy.

Only after the 15 mile test ride/15 mile test drive then you give the car a used car check out. Assume nothing works until you have verified it does work.

For PCCBs Total 911 has a 3 part series on these brakes. You can buy a CD/DVD of its first 50 issues. The last 3 IIRC contain the 3 articles.

In these articles the writer covers how to check/inspect PCCBs and what is acceptable and not acceptable.

Of course you can and should enlist an experienced person to perform a PPI of the car and he should obviously be well versed in what to look for regarding the PCCBs and of course everything else. This PPI wants to come *after* the test ride/drive to give any leaks a chance to show themselves.

The car is probably priced low (if 17K is low in your area, in that market) because of the high miles. >100K miles is a threshold of scariness for many prospective used car buyers.

But these cars can go big miles. I know of an 03 Turbo X50 that has covered nearly 350K miles and I own an 03 Turbo that has covered 92K miles and I also own an 02 Boxster that has covered 255K miles. The miles (at least for the Boxster) have not been without some issues, as is expected: water pump, fuel pump, VarioCam solenoid/actuator, various O2 sensors, a MAF, 3 AOS's, 2 batteries, one windshield (rock chip turned into one big crack), coolant tank, front sway bar drop links, CV boots and brake and clutch interlock switches, wheel bearing and I think that's about all. But really nothing major, though the bill for the VarioCam stuff came to a bit over $3K. But the car was and still is in good condition and I can't replace it with any other similar car for that little money.

Up to you of course what you think you can live with. If 'big' miles scares you and there's no shame in this, walk away. Or even if you don't think you want the car, go look at it anyway to get an idea of how a car with 139K miles looks/sounds/rides/drives like. It will give you some baseline going forward.

Sincerely,

Rockster.

[STiG911]

Agree with Rockster, this has the markings of a good buy.
The key here is to check all the paperwork BEFORE getting behind the wheel so you don't get all misty eyed. Keep your head, particularly with regard to the money spent on the engine, who did the work, and if any warranty period exists on the work too as well as the car itself. THEN check the sevice history, again, noting who did the work, how timely the stamps are, and if any intermediate work was done between servicing.
From the pictures alone you can see the car has (apparently) been looked after, it certainly doesn't even come close to looking like a car with more than 30k on, let alone almost 140k, and the spec is pretty much 'tick all the boxes' although no BOSE or Heated / Sports seats though. Huh.
I'm not aware of any Porsche inspection peoples that far north, but it'll be money well spent if you can find one, for peace of mind.
Oh, but I would double the test drive to 30 miles if you can. By the time you get to 15 miles, the engine oil will only just be up to normal temp (circa 90) making it possible to really stretch her legs
Good luck!

[barrieeld]

Wow! Rockstar many thanks for the detailed response exactly what i was looking for. Many thanks for taking the time!

In terms of listening to the engine what noise would the engine be making if it were on its way out etc?

Also I've asked the seller to breakdown what the latest service and engine rebuild entailed, is there anything that I should be looking to see done to guarantee piece of mind?

Also i see he states the ceramic brakes were done...I've requested an invoice for this also, any idea how much?

Thanks again guys.

[Rockster]

barrieeld said:

Wow! Rockstar many thanks for the detailed response exactly what i was looking for. Many thanks for taking the time!

In terms of listening to the engine what noise would the engine be making if it were on its way out etc?

Also I've asked the seller to breakdown what the latest service and engine rebuild entailed, is there anything that I should be looking to see done to guarantee piece of mind?

Also i see he states the ceramic brakes were done...I've requested an invoice for this also, any idea how much?

Thanks again guys.

To have a good chance of id'ing a sick engine by listening to it you have to have experience listening to sick (and healthy) engines.

Generally what you are listening for are any noises: ticking, clicking, rumbling down low, knocks, and so on, that stand out, that you can hear over the background noise the engine makes while it is running.

A sick engine, depending upon its sickness, may sound pretty bad from a cold start, but then sound better shortly after. Or the engine may sound sick from cold and continue to sound sick as it warms up though with this diminishing once the engine is hot. Or it may sound ok at cold start, and as it warms up, but once hot manifest sounds of sickness.

Also, during the test drive the DME constantly checks the engine's health and that of the many systems, sensors and if the DME detects anything abnormal it will turn on the CEL and log one or more error codes.

You want to be sure when you first start the cold engine that this CEL comes on -- to verify the bulb is not burned out (or that it has been removed/taped over...) -- then that the CEL (and all other warning lights) goes right out.

Generally for any service you want to verify as best you can the service, the work was done by a reputable shop and ideally that if there is any remaining warranty that it can be transferred to you if you buy the car.

If the work was done a long time ago, many miles ago, then the condition of the car is what you have to rely upon to know the work was done right.

If the engine was rebuilt you want to know who did this. I would want to see this was done by either a qualified dealer and its service department or one of the top 2 Porsche engine rebuilders in your area, in your country. This is not a job for the corner auto repair shop unless you live next door to say Autofarm or Hartech.

A breakdown of what was replaced when the engine was rebuilt can be interesting. You want to also see genuine Porsche factory parts were used, not something aftermarket or from a salvage yard.

Not sure how PCCBs can be 'done'. The PCCBs then are either in acceptable condition and perform as they should or they do not and the offending parts are replaced.

AFAIK the rotors can not be resurfaced. Pads can be replaced if they wear out or if necessary both the rotors and pads can be replaced.

If either the pads or pads and rotors were replaced I'd like to know why. Manufacturing defect; damage during a wheel R&R (the wheel can drop down during removal and chip the edge of the rotor which if this is severe enough renders the rotor unusable) (might add experienced techs use wheel rods to prevent the wheel from dropping on the rotor when the wheel comes unstuck from the hub); or were the brakes heat damaged during excessive track use or damaged during an 'off' into the gravel pit; or did they just wear out.

For some of the above you can rely upon an expert PPI to catch things you might miss or not know about but my preference is to as best that can be done eliminate a car before moving to a PPI.

Sincerely,

Rockster.