What should I be paying for this Cerb?

[mi1ne]

Ok, so I've been offered a 97 Cerbera. Dark purple/blue, standard apart from a differnt backbox. Its done just under 60k miles, but its sat in a garage for a few years. Its had the manifolds and clutch replaced in the last two years and done nearly no miles since.

The interior is past it which will need replaced/re trimmed and the bodywork is tatty with scratches etc.

Not seen it in the flesh yet, but going to see it this week.

Difficult question to answer without seeing the car, i appreciate that. But what is the lower end of the scale with Cerberas?

[Tanguero]

Interior and respray are relatively easy to sort. The big decider is what the chassis is like. If the outriggers are rotten then it really needs a body off job which will make a big difference to the price.

[alsub]

If the chassis is all OK, 3.5 - 4K.

[scotty_d]

Tanguero said:

Interior and respray are relatively easy to sort. The big decider is what the chassis is like. If the outriggers are rotten then it really needs a body off job which will make a big difference to the price.

Around £1800+vat with the body on, And best with body on as you can use the body as the perfect jig.

[Mark.]

alsub said:

If the chassis is all OK, 3.5 - 4K.

Got to say that's very low.

[Latty666]

Mark. said:

Got to say that's very low.

I would have said 4k if the chassis needed attention, if it's all ok I'd start the haggling at 6k..

[richtvr]

I paid 6k for my 1997 with no engine and tatty

Would say 4k is far to low I would go 6-10k

Mark. said:

Got to say that's very low.

[Tanguero]

scotty_d said:

Tanguero said:

Interior and respray are relatively easy to sort. The big decider is what the chassis is like. If the outriggers are rotten then it really needs a body off job which will make a big difference to the price.

Around £1800+vat with the body on, And best with body on as you can use the body as the perfect jig.

Having just done mine myself, I have to disagree. It is impossible to do the outriggers properly with the body on. There is no way to weld round all the tubes with it in place. It would also be utterly impossible to attend to any other chassis corrosion without removing the body.

I know there are places that will tack on outriggers without lifting the body but there is no way they can be fully sleeved and welded with the body in situ. Making a jig is the easiest bit of the job.

[Mark.]

richtvr said:

I paid 6k for my 1997 with no engine and tatty

Would say 4k is far to low I would go 6-10k

I agree, and to the top end of that too, so it's been stood but seems to have has at least some work done on it.

Too much talking down values here.

[Gazzab]

The engine MIGHT need some work. Personally I would pay £6K or £7K max for it assuming some paint and retrim and carpet and a good service. This little lot could be £7k or more....?!
If additionally the engine was shot then I would pay a couple of grand less.

[scotty_d]

Tanguero said:

Having just done mine myself, I have to disagree. It is impossible to do the outriggers properly with the body on. There is no way to weld round all the tubes with it in place. It would also be utterly impossible to attend to any other chassis corrosion without removing the body.

I know there are places that will tack on outriggers without lifting the body but there is no way they can be fully sleeved and welded with the body in situ. Making a jig is the easiest bit of the job.

I have to disagree again i too first thought it could not be done properly with body in situ, (fair enough to other chassis areas) But after a very long chat and walk through at Track V road they binned using the Jig they have and doing them in Situ. It can be done and done very very well. I have seen it with my own eyes there process is clever to see the least from a engineering solution there fabricator is one clever cookie.

[Tanguero]

Not wishing to derail the OPs thread too much further, we will have to agree to disagree about outrigger repairs. I have seen the process you mention and it does not meet my personal standard of a proipper repair. Not least for the two reasons that there is no internal sleeve and continuous external weld and secondly that it is physicaly impossible to powder coat over the welds once they are done.
YMMV

As to value, I agree, a lot of the prices being bandied about are way too low. With a reasonable condition chassis I wouid have thought at least 10-12 k even allowing for interior and a blow over.

[Gazzab]

Its surely a question of what people will pay. If I was buying that one then I would want to allow for the costs of an expert fixing chassis, paint, interior and engine - or at least a contribution towards this. Ultimately it depends what condition it is in. Somewhere from £5K to £10K seems the right range!

[mi1ne]

Thanks for replys, been interesting!

Appreciate it.

Paul

[HarryW]

scotty_d said:

Tanguero said:

Having just done mine myself, I have to disagree. It is impossible to do the outriggers properly with the body on. There is no way to weld round all the tubes with it in place. It would also be utterly impossible to attend to any other chassis corrosion without removing the body.

I know there are places that will tack on outriggers without lifting the body but there is no way they can be fully sleeved and welded with the body in situ. Making a jig is the easiest bit of the job.

I have to disagree again i too first thought it could not be done properly with body in situ, (fair enough to other chassis areas) But after a very long chat and walk through at Track V road they binned using the Jig they have and doing them in Situ. It can be done and done very very well. I have seen it with my own eyes there process is clever to see the least from a engineering solution there fabricator is one clever cookie.

I thought for proper welding access to the points where full replacement outriggers meet the main chassis box sections was to cut the glass under the carpets in the footwells and replace it afterwards, glassing is relatively easy and not load bearing per se afaik.

[esso]

alsub said:

If the chassis is all OK, 3.5 - 4K.

If its an AJP V8 and the engine is good,the engine is worth 3K alone surely?

[ukkid35]

Any running Cerb with MOT will fetch £6k plus, assuming it is complete and can be driven away. That does not necessarily mean that paying less than 6k means you automatically have a bargain, deferred maintenance can easily eat up any apparent savings and then some. But if you're like me and can live with poor carpets and paint, then you may well end up with a car that you can enjoy for as long as the chassis and engine permit, before deciding whether to invest, part-out, or sell. If you end up selling, then the loss will likely be less than many people spend on annual maintenance.

[scotty_d]

HarryW said:

I thought for proper welding access to the points where full replacement outriggers meet the main chassis box sections was to cut the glass under the carpets in the footwells and replace it afterwards, glassing is relatively easy and not load bearing per se afaik.

They weld the inside of the tube and then sleeve over and weld the rest of the Tube. I seen a chim they were working, looked very tidy. I understand what has been said about powder coating so that is one draw back but i don't see this as an major issue, A little paint every year or 2 will keep this in check and they don't tend to rot very much in those area's so should out last the car in my care if i go down this route.

[Tanguero]

scotty_d said:

They weld the inside of the tube and then sleeve over and weld the rest of the Tube. I seen a chim they were working, looked very tidy. I understand what has been said about powder coating so that is one draw back but i don't see this as an major issue, A little paint every year or 2 will keep this in check and they don't tend to rot very much in those area's so should out last the car in my care if i go down this route.

It also means that the outside of the tube is not fully fused at the top in the same way as if the tube had been welded from the outside, that combined with the lack of powder coat and you have a water trap where it will rot again. The fillet that is welded in to close the tube means that each joint has 3 lines of weld instead of one which is inherently weaker. The sleeve is also a water trap in any weld porosity, especially where it cant be welded adjacent to the bodywork.

It is doubtless a better technique than just tacking on the bottom of the outrigger tubes, but to claim that it is as good, or better, than taking the body off and welding up properly with an internal sleeve and fully penetrating welds followed by powder coating is frankly laughable!

[scotty_d]

I know where you are coming from and being an engineer my self thought the same as you do. But after spending 3 hours at Track V road while waiting on my Geo being set up, I really looking closely at there work I was very impressed they have a good technique that is clean and can archive a full weld 360. But Il leave it at that best make your own mind up and look for your self Agree to disagree.