500 Griff turns over wont start

[crashburnfly]

Perhaps some of the guru's can point me in the right direction to cure this problem.
It turns over but wont fire. It has fuel! and none of the fuses are blown. As a test I have swapped around the two relays next to the ECU as I understand one is ignition and the other fuel pump. Either relay works the fuel pump so it seems it should be OK for ignition.
What is the next most likely things that may have failed/need checking? All advice much appreciated.

FYI - last year I swapped to Ohlins and had it all set-up properly and it totally transforms the car. Bumpy roads are no longer an issue and its now the lack of aero at the front that now limits progress.

Paul
West Sussex.

[Rob_the_Sparky]

Well normally the next thing to test is have you got a spark, there are a number of failures that could cause a loos of spark but I'm afraid I don't know the Griff system too well so probably better that someone with better knowledge can post.

Rob

P.S. If I had to guess I'd be thinking ignition amp, coil and leads to/from coil are likely suspects, but as said could be something Griff specific that I don't know about.

[Loubaruch]

1. You say you have fuel can you here the pump prime initially and then stop?

2. Have you checked for an HT spark at the plugs? Neon testers are cheap at Halfords and can save a lot of messing about. You should have a clearly defined bright orange glow if the HT is present

3.Presumably the engine turns over on the starter motor?

It could be something other than the above but I would check these first.

All 3 above ie. the fuel pump supply, the ignition amplifier and the starter motor usually pass through the immobiliser so that could be another candidate.

You need to narrow things down to diagnose the problem.

[Apache]

From memory the fuel pump won't run if the immobiliser is at fault so I'd check for a spark first

[crashburnfly]

Engine turns over, fuel pump runs and no spark.
Fuse to ignition is OK and ignition relay by ECU also seems OK.
It was running fine previously so I assume something has failed and just wondered what in your experiences are the most likely culprits so I can try and fix it.
Thanks for your suggestions so far.
Paul.

[Apache]

In that case I'd go for the coil, they do go in hot engine compartments and the Griff gets pretty hot

[Apache]

obviously check the LT side is good first

[DVR V8]

Don't forget to take one of the connections off the fuel pump when checking HT&plugs.These engines flood really easily.

[DarkMatter]

I'd suspect the ignition amplifier (it's attached to the coil). I've experienced issues with mine where the engine would turn over but there was no spark from the coil. Removing and replacing the various connections to the ignition amp temporarily resolved the problem but a replacement ignition amp totally eliminated the problem.

[Loubaruch]

As said above any of the ignition components could be at fault. If the car has been standing for a while make sure that the distributor cap and HT leads are clean, with this hot spell condensation could foul things up. The dis cap, rotor arm, coil and ignition amp are all suspects as is the main HT lead from the coil to distributor cap. As a matter of course I always keep spare ignition components and the two metal case Bosch relays in the glove box.

Coils can fail but usually start giving problems when hot. I would try a new ignition amp first if the other things are OK.

[kevd]

I had a simillar problem recently, which I cured by removing the live terminal from the battery for approx 1 minute, then refit and try that, it must have been a reset in the immobiliser or something.
It is worth a try first before you start spending too much on chasing a fault around.
I notice you are in W,Sussex also. If you are local I have a few spares ie, coil, HT leads you are welcome to try before shelling out.

[FlipFlopGriff]

If you remove a connection from the battery always the earth, never the live.

Other than that possibly king lead, coil or ignition amp - would be good start points.

Have you checked all the fuses as it could be that simple?

FFG

[Virgil66]

Hi,
We have a '95 Griff 500 Hc which we aquired 5 years ago.. awesome beast..
However, 1 month after buying it it wouldn't start... sound familiar..
did all the usual.. even had a spark at a loose laid plug..
three weeks later I stumbled upon a Land Rover specialist at Manningtree ..
Simple advice.. Intermotor Rotor arms break down but dont appear to..
Fit a genuine land rover rotor arm.. so I did.. sorted.. never looked back..
it worked for us.. cheap experiment so good luck
Garry & Julie

[plushuit]

crashburnfly said:

Perhaps some of the guru's can point me in the right direction to cure this problem.
It turns over but wont fire. It has fuel! and none of the fuses are blown. As a test I have swapped around the two relays next to the ECU as I understand one is ignition and the other fuel pump. Either relay works the fuel pump so it seems it should be OK for ignition.
What is the next most likely things that may have failed/need checking? All advice much appreciated.
Paul
West Sussex.

Forgive me for being pedantic but... diagnostics is a discipline with a graceful set of rules. Follow them and you will save time and frustration. No need to rely on luck. Don't ask for a list of how many things can stop your car from starting. It is a VERY long list. Use reasoning to sherlock the problem.

A turning engine will always combust when two things are present, combustible fuel and a timely spark. As the car was running previously on the same fuel (correct?) and you have altered the timing (correct?) then we can assume that either fuel or a spark is missing. Which?

We cannot be sure you noises from the pump mean a well-fuinction pump..only a fuel pressure at the rail could confirm that. In any event, it is usually easier to test for spark. And if there is a spark..you now something is amiss wqith the fuel.

Where do you test? Plug or coil? If you start with a test of the coil...you still have not verified the distributor. So always start your first test on a lead from the distributor as this is a test of ALL the components in the ignition system simultaneously.

Do you have an extra spark plug? Remove a lead from a sparg plug and using your extra one (if you don't have an extra you will have to remove a spark plug from the engine0. Place the free plug into the lead and lodge the business end of the spark plug against some known earthed part, like the plenum or a manifold bolt. With that area in the dark, turn the engine over. There will be a tiny blue spark from the spark plug. Look carefully, perhaps with some else turning the key as the Lucas spark on these engines is substandard...feeble at best. If you see the spark..you have a fueling problem. If not..you can proceed to test the ignition components. The process is rapid. If you choose the method process, I will monitor this thread.

[Apache]

the lack of response from the OP is a worry