Cheeky request for a drive/ride - Growl
Discussion
Is anybody going to the Growl that has a non PAS 500 running on upgraded suspension that would let me have a passenger ride or even a small drive?
I will be there in my standard Griffith 500 and would like to compare a proper suspension setup with what I have. The Griffith has never felt as planted as the Cerbera I used to have and I think it is down the the standard suspension (I think it is). The weekend really highlighted the need to sort this out to me when I drove my wife's new convertible mini (it is fun but you do look like a fruit). If I am honest it handles so much better than my Griffith does and that just isn't right.
The main problem is at speed when overtaking it tramlines pretty badly (worse than a Cerb which are notorious for this). So much so I am always amazed I do not end up in a hedge when overtaking. It seems to grab the centre lines and refuses to give them up, once it does give them up it does so suddenly and you rapidly head towards the kerb.
This sounds a bit odd but generally the difference when driving is that the Cerbera felt like it had a wheel in each corner and everything felt wide and low down like you were sitting on the floor. When you steered in a Cerbera if felt reassuring like the back was pushing you round the corner - like a big go cart. The Griffith feels like I am high up almost balancing on something than leans around corners and doesn't give the same confidence. See, I said that would sound odd but I am trying to put the feeling into words which isn't easy.
I would like to find out where 2k+ on the handling will get me before I start forking out.
Tim.
I will be there in my standard Griffith 500 and would like to compare a proper suspension setup with what I have. The Griffith has never felt as planted as the Cerbera I used to have and I think it is down the the standard suspension (I think it is). The weekend really highlighted the need to sort this out to me when I drove my wife's new convertible mini (it is fun but you do look like a fruit). If I am honest it handles so much better than my Griffith does and that just isn't right.
The main problem is at speed when overtaking it tramlines pretty badly (worse than a Cerb which are notorious for this). So much so I am always amazed I do not end up in a hedge when overtaking. It seems to grab the centre lines and refuses to give them up, once it does give them up it does so suddenly and you rapidly head towards the kerb.
This sounds a bit odd but generally the difference when driving is that the Cerbera felt like it had a wheel in each corner and everything felt wide and low down like you were sitting on the floor. When you steered in a Cerbera if felt reassuring like the back was pushing you round the corner - like a big go cart. The Griffith feels like I am high up almost balancing on something than leans around corners and doesn't give the same confidence. See, I said that would sound odd but I am trying to put the feeling into words which isn't easy.
I would like to find out where 2k+ on the handling will get me before I start forking out.
Tim.
BJWoods said:
I assume you've had the basic geometry checked. dampers/springs not knackered?
I haven't had a geo but the springs and dampers should be fine. It has always been serviced at TVR or well known TVR garages that are all highly recommended on here. The only thing I needed for the last MOT was a CV boot so I guess Sportmotive would have raised any points in that area while working there. They gave the car a once over and said all was fine when I took it for the 12k service at the end of the summer last year, the car hasn't done much since then until the last few weeks and the handling was the same back then.Where is the best place for a geo setup and how much would this cost?
If I am wasting my time on the standard shocks then I would rather just get them replaced and then do the geo setup.
Tim.
TimJM said:
I haven't had a geo but the springs and dampers should be fine. It has always been serviced at TVR or well known TVR garages that are all highly recommended on here. The only thing I needed for the last MOT was a CV boot so I guess Sportmotive would have raised any points in that area while working there. They gave the car a once over and said all was fine when I took it for the 12k service at the end of the summer last year, the car hasn't done much since then until the last few weeks and the handling was the same back then.
Where is the best place for a geo setup and how much would this cost?
If I am wasting my time on the standard shocks then I would rather just get them replaced and then do the geo setup.
Tim.
Any dealer can check the geomerty for you, tyre pressures as well can make a difference (depends on tyre).Where is the best place for a geo setup and how much would this cost?
If I am wasting my time on the standard shocks then I would rather just get them replaced and then do the geo setup.
Tim.
Dampers/springs could be 'ok' but tired...
A while ago, mine dampers/springs were knackered, so as needed new ones anyway, made the extra cost to Ohlins.
Totally transformed it. (nitrons proabbly just as good, but I thought as I'm keeping it for ever)
Car is a shorter whhel base than a cerb, so a bit trickier.. (mine is a PAS car though)
I've got a non PAS 500 and have uprated the suspension with poly bushes (front bushes only at the moment - will tackle the rear next winter), Nitrons with Eibach springs, new top and bottom ball joints, Leven drop links, recon steering rack with new track rod ends. I've also recently fitted 4 pot caliper front brakes and braided hoses all round.
I am still playing with ride height and suspension stiffness settings but the whole thing feels a lot more planted than it did.
How old are your tyres? When I bought my car two of the tyres were original(!) and the other two were quite old. Even though it was low mileage and the tyres had plenty of tread they were knackered. As hard and stiff as anything. Replacing them with a set of new Toyo's brought the ride back to what I remembered from my previous Griffith.
The rest of the car is standard - I thought I'd get the important bits sorted before looking at engine enhancements.
I'll be at the Growl and am happy to take you for a drive - I'm too precious about the car to let anyone else drive it! My car reg is N3 TVR.
David.
I am still playing with ride height and suspension stiffness settings but the whole thing feels a lot more planted than it did.
How old are your tyres? When I bought my car two of the tyres were original(!) and the other two were quite old. Even though it was low mileage and the tyres had plenty of tread they were knackered. As hard and stiff as anything. Replacing them with a set of new Toyo's brought the ride back to what I remembered from my previous Griffith.
The rest of the car is standard - I thought I'd get the important bits sorted before looking at engine enhancements.
I'll be at the Growl and am happy to take you for a drive - I'm too precious about the car to let anyone else drive it! My car reg is N3 TVR.
David.
Shawbags said:
I've got a non PAS 500 and have uprated the suspension with poly bushes (front bushes only at the moment - will tackle the rear next winter), Nitrons with Eibach springs, new top and bottom ball joints, Leven drop links, recon steering rack with new track rod ends. I've also recently fitted 4 pot caliper front brakes and braided hoses all round.
I am still playing with ride height and suspension stiffness settings but the whole thing feels a lot more planted than it did.
How old are your tyres? When I bought my car two of the tyres were original(!) and the other two were quite old. Even though it was low mileage and the tyres had plenty of tread they were knackered. As hard and stiff as anything. Replacing them with a set of new Toyo's brought the ride back to what I remembered from my previous Griffith.
The rest of the car is standard - I thought I'd get the important bits sorted before looking at engine enhancements.
I'll be at the Growl and am happy to take you for a drive - I'm too precious about the car to let anyone else drive it! My car reg is N3 TVR.
David.
I hope to see you there then. I understand about not letting other people drive it - that's why I thought it was a long shot. A passenger ride may help me feel the difference though, maybe if I take you out in mine you could judge how different mine feels on the bumps/twists.I am still playing with ride height and suspension stiffness settings but the whole thing feels a lot more planted than it did.
How old are your tyres? When I bought my car two of the tyres were original(!) and the other two were quite old. Even though it was low mileage and the tyres had plenty of tread they were knackered. As hard and stiff as anything. Replacing them with a set of new Toyo's brought the ride back to what I remembered from my previous Griffith.
The rest of the car is standard - I thought I'd get the important bits sorted before looking at engine enhancements.
I'll be at the Growl and am happy to take you for a drive - I'm too precious about the car to let anyone else drive it! My car reg is N3 TVR.
David.
My reg will be L500 TVR (if I pull my finger out and get down the DVLA).
Tim.
Tim.
Wondered who would get that lovely plate (I made an offer the day it fell off the front of a lorry but they never got back to me....).
You are welcome to come out in mine (and drive if you have insurance) although may not be that useful as I have larger wheels and nitrons.
The handling inspires great confidence and is on a par if not better than my old Cerb 4.5....
See you at the Growl !
Paul.
You are welcome to come out in mine (and drive if you have insurance) although may not be that useful as I have larger wheels and nitrons.
The handling inspires great confidence and is on a par if not better than my old Cerb 4.5....
See you at the Growl !
Paul.
pjac67 said:
Wondered who would get that lovely plate (I made an offer the day it fell off the front of a lorry but they never got back to me....).
You are welcome to come out in mine (and drive if you have insurance) although may not be that useful as I have larger wheels and nitrons.
The handling inspires great confidence and is on a par if not better than my old Cerb 4.5....
See you at the Growl !
Paul.
Yes, I was quite quick on the plate - looks too good an opportunity to miss. That's what I will tell my wife when she see's this months bank statement.You are welcome to come out in mine (and drive if you have insurance) although may not be that useful as I have larger wheels and nitrons.
The handling inspires great confidence and is on a par if not better than my old Cerb 4.5....
See you at the Growl !
Paul.
It may be useful to see what I should be aiming at if it handles better than a 4.5 Cerbera. My 4.5 Cerbera used to handle extremely well and I would like to get back to that level. Even when the tail got out of hand it always felt easily controllable and predictable.
I will speak to my insurance company about extending the fully comp cover for one day to any similar car, worst case I can bring the log book to my low mileage 98 500 you can hold as insurance!
Once the suspension is sorted she will be perfect, oh, and once the number plate is changed, a shiny new decatted Y-piece and some Act manifolds are in.
She is a never sell car so I might as well get her perfect - perfect to me anyway.
Can't wait for the Growl now.
Tim.
Edited by TimJM on Monday 28th May 22:08
Tim,
If your dampers are original then that won't help. Springs too. GGP's are budget upgrade and Derek from GAZ is at the Growl.
Wishbone bushes may also be beyond their best.
Anti roll bar bushes too.
Drop links - are they original. If so, rubber is probably perished and another cheap (ish) upgrade. Leven will be at the Growl so have a look.
Tyres - check the age as above 5 or 6 years they go hard and although may have decent tread drive awful - mine need replacing and although they look almost new, I can feel the difference - they are 7 years old.
Ride height - make sure its correct as you need a good start point.
Do you have a splitter? Not likely to cause much problem but do make the front end light at speed.
Its not likely to be just one of the above I'm afraid but these cars are at least 10 years old now with some more than 20 so the perishables will all need changing at some point. Just seems they all need doing at the same sort of time.
FFG
If your dampers are original then that won't help. Springs too. GGP's are budget upgrade and Derek from GAZ is at the Growl.
Wishbone bushes may also be beyond their best.
Anti roll bar bushes too.
Drop links - are they original. If so, rubber is probably perished and another cheap (ish) upgrade. Leven will be at the Growl so have a look.
Tyres - check the age as above 5 or 6 years they go hard and although may have decent tread drive awful - mine need replacing and although they look almost new, I can feel the difference - they are 7 years old.
Ride height - make sure its correct as you need a good start point.
Do you have a splitter? Not likely to cause much problem but do make the front end light at speed.
Its not likely to be just one of the above I'm afraid but these cars are at least 10 years old now with some more than 20 so the perishables will all need changing at some point. Just seems they all need doing at the same sort of time.
FFG
Thanks FFG,
Sounds like I need to take a more detailed look through my history folder. All work it has had is in there so I can check what if anything has been replaced on the car so far.
The front ARB bushes looked OK to me when I was changing the rad recently.
The rear tyres are less than a year old (puncture on way to Growl last year - fingers crossed for this year). The fronts are not the originals but I will have to check the year on them.
The ride height "looks" right from outside the car - it doesn't look high or low so I guess it is about right.
I don't have a splitter - I know the cerbs have them (if you can keep them on) wasn't sure if the Griff had one. I will have to get one fitted. The reason many fit one on the Cerb (so I thought) was to stop the bonnet lifting when north of 130-150mph. I guess improving down force on the front end is also helpful but not as helpful being able to see out the front window when travelling at high speed.
So:
wishbone bushes
possible rear ARB bushes
new drop links. Levens seem to be about 150+VAT, Steve Heath's about £120 - any difference in overall performance?
and some new shocks.
Looks like I have a shopping list then. My car is in for it's MOT at the end of next month. Might try to get it all done at the same time that way I can hide some of the cost. Oh, BTW - if my wife asks (as she is coming to the growl with me) the Griffith is a very cheap car to maintain...nothing like the 4.5 Cerbera I had. These parts are no more expensive than repairing an old Ford. That's the story
Tim.
Sounds like I need to take a more detailed look through my history folder. All work it has had is in there so I can check what if anything has been replaced on the car so far.
The front ARB bushes looked OK to me when I was changing the rad recently.
The rear tyres are less than a year old (puncture on way to Growl last year - fingers crossed for this year). The fronts are not the originals but I will have to check the year on them.
The ride height "looks" right from outside the car - it doesn't look high or low so I guess it is about right.
I don't have a splitter - I know the cerbs have them (if you can keep them on) wasn't sure if the Griff had one. I will have to get one fitted. The reason many fit one on the Cerb (so I thought) was to stop the bonnet lifting when north of 130-150mph. I guess improving down force on the front end is also helpful but not as helpful being able to see out the front window when travelling at high speed.
So:
wishbone bushes
possible rear ARB bushes
new drop links. Levens seem to be about 150+VAT, Steve Heath's about £120 - any difference in overall performance?
and some new shocks.
Looks like I have a shopping list then. My car is in for it's MOT at the end of next month. Might try to get it all done at the same time that way I can hide some of the cost. Oh, BTW - if my wife asks (as she is coming to the growl with me) the Griffith is a very cheap car to maintain...nothing like the 4.5 Cerbera I had. These parts are no more expensive than repairing an old Ford. That's the story
Tim.
I'm still running the original valved gaz suspension fitted to my car, used by Derek and Steve Guiglimia to work out settings for the initial Gaz kits to fit TVRs...... had the geo was re-done by Power last year, and wow... still working well when set=up
Before initial shocks n set-up used to drift all ove the place at 130mph (subjectively I would liken it equivalent of 3 lanes of a motorway in a straight line).... now planted at 140mph and not on the edge, no splitter either.
Start with getting sorted... best upgarde ever in my book.
Before initial shocks n set-up used to drift all ove the place at 130mph (subjectively I would liken it equivalent of 3 lanes of a motorway in a straight line).... now planted at 140mph and not on the edge, no splitter either.
Start with getting sorted... best upgarde ever in my book.
I have a VERY similar car to yours '98 5ltr non-PAS Black Magnolia interia and have upgraded the suspension with Nitrons + polybushed + Geo. It feels great to drive & never had the tramlining issues you describe. Nitrons are set up firm (I like track days !) but ok for the road. Its very complient & feedback superb.
Getting the laser Geo set-up with the new kit on brought it all together.
Getting the laser Geo set-up with the new kit on brought it all together.
5.0ltr said:
Tim, tramlining has been reported by Griff owners running differing makes of tyres front and rear? What pressures you using?
The rears are T1Rs and the front S03's I believe. I tend to always run around 28psi front and rear.I have another set of wheels with near new T1Rs all round. I will see if putting these on at the weekend helps with the tramlining. I do think though that a refresh of the suspension components can only be a good thing.
Tim.
Right - 28 is a little high then is it?
I will see what they are when I swap the wheels over. In fairness I have only ever pumped up one of the rear tyres myself once when I had a puncture - now they should be at the pressure of whatever the garage set them to when replacing the rear tyres or whatever Sportmotive check/set them to as part of the 12k service.
Will be interesting to see what they are set at.
Tim.
I will see what they are when I swap the wheels over. In fairness I have only ever pumped up one of the rear tyres myself once when I had a puncture - now they should be at the pressure of whatever the garage set them to when replacing the rear tyres or whatever Sportmotive check/set them to as part of the 12k service.
Will be interesting to see what they are set at.
Tim.
TimJM said:
5.0ltr said:
Tim, tramlining has been reported by Griff owners running differing makes of tyres front and rear? What pressures you using?
The rears are T1Rs and the front S03's I believe. I tend to always run around 28psi front and rear.I have another set of wheels with near new T1Rs all round. I will see if putting these on at the weekend helps with the tramlining. I do think though that a refresh of the suspension components can only be a good thing.
Tim.
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