So how fast are M3s then?
Discussion
I'm not in a position to buy a new car at the moment, but I have been casually turning over my next car purchase in my head. I've got a Fiat Coupe at the moment, it's old but it's still in pretty good nick. I haven't fettled it, but the last owner had and he supplied me with a dyno read out saying it makes 288bhp so technically it's quite a fast car I guess.
Anyway, it feels pretty quick if the conditions are right, but the engine is a bit lazy, so it doesn't rev that fast and isn't particularly responsive unless the turbo is boosting. It is fast if you let it wind up and let it rev. However, that doesn't always make for the most fun car to drive, although it didn't have the same outright power I used to sometimes prefer my OH's old 2.2 vtec prelude as it was super responsive to the throttle being tickled.
Another car I've had is a BMW 540i, supposedly they kick out about 280bhp or so, that once again felt quite fast, but nothing special really unless doing 100mph+, where it seemed to start feeling pretty responsive and quick. A car that does this isn't much use on UK roads of course.
So, how do E46 M3s feel? I know the best bet is to drive one, but I am not in a position to buy yet and don't want to waste someone's time by test driving, I am just wondering about them really..
Anyway, it feels pretty quick if the conditions are right, but the engine is a bit lazy, so it doesn't rev that fast and isn't particularly responsive unless the turbo is boosting. It is fast if you let it wind up and let it rev. However, that doesn't always make for the most fun car to drive, although it didn't have the same outright power I used to sometimes prefer my OH's old 2.2 vtec prelude as it was super responsive to the throttle being tickled.
Another car I've had is a BMW 540i, supposedly they kick out about 280bhp or so, that once again felt quite fast, but nothing special really unless doing 100mph+, where it seemed to start feeling pretty responsive and quick. A car that does this isn't much use on UK roads of course.
So, how do E46 M3s feel? I know the best bet is to drive one, but I am not in a position to buy yet and don't want to waste someone's time by test driving, I am just wondering about them really..
E 46 M3's are pretty quick cars but IMO dont really feel as fast as they actually are.This is mainly due to a lack of low end torque.Throttle response is good but the power delivery is very linear and you really do have to use the full extent of the rev range(8000rpm+) in each gear to get the best out of them.If you do they really do move,you just dont get the ....jesus christ kick up the arse like you do from a turbo car,evo subaru etc.
Great cars though and £10k will get you a great deal of car these days if you find a good one.
Great cars though and £10k will get you a great deal of car these days if you find a good one.
I have a manual version (never driven an SMG version).
I have only had it about three months, and I feel I'm still acquainting myself with it as it's for leisure only.
I love the way it drives and the way it sounds. I love the drop in the snarly revs. between gear changes when pressing on. It is a Jekyll an Hyde car, very easy to live with in traffic and around town, but is more than quick enough (for me anyway) when the road opens up. Get it above 3500-4000rpm and it is immense. It depends if you like your power delivery low down or higher up I suppose.
I feel I've only scratched the surface so far though with its abilities, as the roads it has spent it's time on in my ownership are uninspiring to say the least......
I have only had it about three months, and I feel I'm still acquainting myself with it as it's for leisure only.
I love the way it drives and the way it sounds. I love the drop in the snarly revs. between gear changes when pressing on. It is a Jekyll an Hyde car, very easy to live with in traffic and around town, but is more than quick enough (for me anyway) when the road opens up. Get it above 3500-4000rpm and it is immense. It depends if you like your power delivery low down or higher up I suppose.
I feel I've only scratched the surface so far though with its abilities, as the roads it has spent it's time on in my ownership are uninspiring to say the least......
Agree with others who say the BMWs don't feel as quick as they are. My 328 didn't feel anything like as fast as it actually proved to be when I took it up the drag strip.
They do need revving quite hard as well.
The M3s have very peaky motors, you need to flog them to make them go fast, and then even when you do, it'll feel quick, but not "wow!"
You need quite a small, light car to truly feel the speed. My Clio 172 feels way quicker than the 328 I had, but in actual fact, there's probably nowt in it.
They do need revving quite hard as well.
The M3s have very peaky motors, you need to flog them to make them go fast, and then even when you do, it'll feel quick, but not "wow!"
You need quite a small, light car to truly feel the speed. My Clio 172 feels way quicker than the 328 I had, but in actual fact, there's probably nowt in it.
goldblum said:
Not very.In the wet or damp you can forget it.
Cross country on dry roads they're very fast courtesy of excellent suspension and high powerband/torque.
I never thought they were that bad in the wet.Again the lack of low down grunt meant traction was not much of an issue,unless you provoked it of course.Also a decent set of tyres made a difference.My last last set of tyres were the vredestein ultrac sessantas which were superb in the wet and better IMO than the PS 2s I had before which were a great all round tyre.Cross country on dry roads they're very fast courtesy of excellent suspension and high powerband/torque.
Interesting.. I think I want to move away from the type of car that delivers a lot of power at the top end but doesn't really feel that fast. One of the most fun cars I had was an Alfa 33 1.5ti. It was a twin carb 1500cc flat 4 engine, only made about 100bhp or so, but the car weighed nothing and the responsiveness of the engine was perfect, if you touched the throttle, the engine reacted instantly, no waiting around. The car would be redlining by 80mph, but it was great fun to thrash around.
Saying that, it was about 10 years ago when I owned that, I don't know how it would feel to me nowadays, but I remember it being a lot of fun at the time. I'm torn between comfortable cruiser and lightweight thrash machine, not really sure what to go for next!
Saying that, it was about 10 years ago when I owned that, I don't know how it would feel to me nowadays, but I remember it being a lot of fun at the time. I'm torn between comfortable cruiser and lightweight thrash machine, not really sure what to go for next!
bicycleshorts said:
Nedzilla said:
If you do they really do move,you just dont get the ....jesus christ kick up the arse like you do from a turbo car,evo subaru etc.
I'd agree with this. Obviously depends what you want, but turbo-shove is fantastic for making a car feel faster than it is.
That said, there is a lot of fun to be had from a n/a screamer revving to 8000rpm too. Plus, the E46 M3 makes a fantastic sound, much better than any turbo 4pot.
goldblum said:
Not very.In the wet or damp you can forget it.
Cross country on dry roads they're very fast courtesy of excellent suspension and high powerband/torque.
This comment again... I had the M6 in the wet and damp with no problemns, and unless you switch DSC off, the computer does a fine job of keeping the back end in check. Sufficiently even to still try some straight line sprints and having fun when cornering. I took mine on summer tyres to belgium once it snowed in france on my way back, saw a stacked audi quattro about 3miles from teh ferry home, and did have a few scary moments when on packed snow bit of the motorway, but it manged like a champ.Cross country on dry roads they're very fast courtesy of excellent suspension and high powerband/torque.
Once season appropriate tyres were on it was again a safe and normal car.
One thing I will agree on is that neither my M5 nor the M6 felt as quick as they must have looked when doing the launch control or overtaking my mate's ferrari 360 when he was going all out. I have a feeling that the smaller, albeit faster M3 will feel marginally faster than the M5.
Panthro said:
GroundEffect said:
If E92s weren't so costly to run, I'd have one in a heartbeat.
They aren't. If anything, they cost less to run than an E46. My E92 cost less than my E46 thanks to condition based servicing and no valve clearance adjustment. Another big hitter is the £470/annum tax :/
Nedzilla said:
E 46 M3's are pretty quick cars but IMO dont really feel as fast as they actually are.This is mainly due to a lack of low end torque.Throttle response is good but the power delivery is very linear and you really do have to use the full extent of the rev range(8000rpm+) in each gear to get the best out of them.If you do they really do move,you just dont get the ....jesus christ kick up the arse like you do from a turbo car,evo subaru etc.
Great cars though and £10k will get you a great deal of car these days if you find a good one.
Pretty fair assessment, however I'd argue that there is a definite urgency as you scream towards the top of the rev counter.Great cars though and £10k will get you a great deal of car these days if you find a good one.
Driven "normally" an M3 could feel weak as it'll lack the OPs current car's turbo swell of torque.
For me the M3's ability is far greater than what can simply be expressed as raw stats. It's real world ability, fun and involvement is a step up from anything below £10k IMO.
The OP might consider a really nice Evo VI Tommi for M3 pace (or greater) cross country, and that turbo surge. I've considered a move to an Evo a couple of time, as I really like driving them. The economy and comfort keep me in the M3 though.
For every discipline, there is something better than the M3 on the market - Ride, handling, comfort, noise, performance, braking etc. There is nothing on the road, however, that can beat the M3 as a package, or score so consistently high in all criteria (braking aside - standard kit isn't up to the job)
isee said:
goldblum said:
Not very.In the wet or damp you can forget it.
Cross country on dry roads they're very fast courtesy of excellent suspension and high powerband/torque.
This comment again... I had the M6 in the wet and damp with no problemns, and unless you switch DSC off, the computer does a fine job of keeping the back end in check. Sufficiently even to still try some straight line sprints and having fun when cornering.Cross country on dry roads they're very fast courtesy of excellent suspension and high powerband/torque.
I've had two M3s,both from new.I couldn't believe how bad they were on anything damp.I'm not tarring all RWD cars by any means..I switched to a 997 C2s which was an order of magnitude better.
I'm not levering the lid off of the can of worms, nor trying to make myself out to be some kind of driving god, however ...
I've always found that I've been able to still use my M3's performance in all conditions apart from snow where it is utterly utterly diabolical.
I'll concede that it needs to be treated with a lot more respect in the wet than in the dry, however I still always drive it with TC off, and enjoy it to its lower limits. I don't think that the level of percentage of dry performance that can be accessed in the wet is disproportionaly lower for an M3 than any other two wheel drive car ~ In actual fact, it's been some of the firmed suspended FWD hot hatches that I've driven that I've felt I've lost more edge with in the wet as they cannot be thrown around with the same abandon as in the dry.
Standing water is perhaps the particular enemy of the M3 given its large rear boots, but that's a small price to pay for every (empty!!) roundabout becoming a master class in throttle / steering control.
I've always found that I've been able to still use my M3's performance in all conditions apart from snow where it is utterly utterly diabolical.
I'll concede that it needs to be treated with a lot more respect in the wet than in the dry, however I still always drive it with TC off, and enjoy it to its lower limits. I don't think that the level of percentage of dry performance that can be accessed in the wet is disproportionaly lower for an M3 than any other two wheel drive car ~ In actual fact, it's been some of the firmed suspended FWD hot hatches that I've driven that I've felt I've lost more edge with in the wet as they cannot be thrown around with the same abandon as in the dry.
Standing water is perhaps the particular enemy of the M3 given its large rear boots, but that's a small price to pay for every (empty!!) roundabout becoming a master class in throttle / steering control.
The E46 M3 is still a capable, fast car.
When the engine is warm with temps at optimum level, the engine is energetic and flexible. It's not a hot rod but rather a smooth linear accelerating engine that just pulls and pulls. It does need to be worked a bit below 3.5k rpm but it's so rewarding that it doesn't matter, and above 4krpm it goes very nicely indeed. It also helps that the car handles well too, and despite what people say about the steering, it is very nice at speed, weighted but very neutral, almost benign. It really does feel balanced and accomplished at 100+ and very capable between 100-160mph.
When the engine is warm with temps at optimum level, the engine is energetic and flexible. It's not a hot rod but rather a smooth linear accelerating engine that just pulls and pulls. It does need to be worked a bit below 3.5k rpm but it's so rewarding that it doesn't matter, and above 4krpm it goes very nicely indeed. It also helps that the car handles well too, and despite what people say about the steering, it is very nice at speed, weighted but very neutral, almost benign. It really does feel balanced and accomplished at 100+ and very capable between 100-160mph.
GroundEffect said:
Panthro said:
GroundEffect said:
If E92s weren't so costly to run, I'd have one in a heartbeat.
They aren't. If anything, they cost less to run than an E46. My E92 cost less than my E46 thanks to condition based servicing and no valve clearance adjustment. Another big hitter is the £470/annum tax :/
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