Where to start??

[clarki]

So i'm into my trackdays.

Been using a megane r26r for the last 3+ years, it's been great, but I now find myself thinking i'd like to try a caterham - always been a car ive liked the look of tbh. But really, really know very little about them.

Question is, with all the model types out there, where do I start. Ideally I'd like something with the same sort of performance of my current car to begin with, whilst at the back of my mind i'm very aware my RWD experience/skill level (wife's wafty merc aside) is more or less zero.

[HustleRussell]

Borrow one! Book-a-track have a range of Caterhams for you to try- you just have to book the car rental and the trackday. It'll be expensive, but a damn sight cheaper than buying the wrong car, and a day spent spanking a Caterham around a race track is never a day wasted!
Depending on budget, if I were you I'd buy a fairly low powered seven and expect to either change it after a while or upgrade it. With that in mind, your best bet is to buy a seven with a tunable engine.
I'm on my first Caterham and it has 100.8bhp. I have had it three years and completed 26 races and numerous track/test days. Even with a low powered seven, it'll take a lot of practice before you can extract every last tenth.

[VHPD]

I suspect that even a basic 100bhp Caterham will be quicker than the Megane on most tracks.
What it may lack in top speed it will make up for in the corners and braking being less than half the weight.
As mentioned its best to get in one for a day if you can.

Also is the Megane your daily drive as well?
The Caterham is not an everyday car by most peoples standards.

Edited by VHPD on Tuesday 5th June 22:22

[allen l]

Depending on the type of track, the weather and whether you have a windshield or not, I doubt that. Especially if the driver is as crappy as me!

[VHPD]

allen l said:

Depending on the type of track, the weather and whether you have a windshield or not, I doubt that. Especially if the driver is as crappy as me!

Okay perhaps I should of mentioned a dry track

The Megane is quoted at 185bhp/tonne and 0-62 in 6 secs and 148mph top speed (carmagazine.co.uk).

I Caterham at 100bhp would be similar bhp/tonne and 0-62 but some way behind in top speed.

But 1230kgs is a lumbering old bus in the corners by comparison to a basic 7.

The club circuit at Brands Hatch my money would be on the 7 but, on reflection, it may be a different story on the GP circuit.

I'd be interested in Hustlerussell's comments having seen him lowflying around the club circuit.


OP I am not dissing the Megane btw

[Steve Campbell]

Best place to start....

...read through the forums, get yourself along to a L7C pub meeting and kick tyres & chat to the locals (maybe get a passenger ride), understand your budget....and "borrow one" as above.....

....and on next track day...be nice to a caterham driver and ask for passenger ride on track to get to understand the difference between tintops and lightweight track cars....

have fun !

[Dave J]

ultimately depends on your budget but I would go for a superlight R circa 1999 for about £18k or a R400 for £20- £28k . both of these have around 190-210 HP and will be more than enough to scare you . the long term upgrades are limited on these power wise as the k is a little fragile above circa 210bhp.
the R400 will eat everything on a trackday except for a very well driven gt3 at the ring.
dj

[clarki]

Thanks folks. Much appreciated.

Starting to sway towards a roadsport. Whilst my current car isnt used every day we do enjoy using it for more than just trackdays. A recent trip to spa was a bit of a lifetime highlight tbh.

Budget is around the 20k mark, so hoping maybe a 2.0 Duratec.

I take it an LSD is essential, anything else that's a must.

Week off next week so going to start the search soon.

[timrw81]

You could do worse than having a look at the new Supersport. It has a 140bhp Sigma engine, LSD, and brilliantly tuned suspension out of the box. I've just spent the last two days driving one on the roads Yorkshire and it's the best Caterham I've driven. The chassis and power seem to be a perfect match for each other. Even though it 'only' has 140bhp, it will still float into oversteer at 60mph plus in 3rd, but the suspension set up (race springs and dampers) is so perfectly judged that, even at high speeds, it never feels scary. Just a cracking package.

Edited by timrw81 on Wednesday 6th June 22:21

[Murph7355]

Dave J said:

ultimately depends on your budget but I would go for a superlight R circa 1999 for about £18k or a R400 for £20- £28k . both of these have around 190-210 HP and will be more than enough to scare you . the long term upgrades are limited on these power wise as the k is a little fragile above circa 210bhp.
the R400 will eat everything on a trackday except for a very well driven gt3 at the ring.
dj

I would do this.

Megane's are quick cars and if you've been peddling it for 3yrs, you'll be quite handy in it I would think. An R400 will trounce it though and give plenty of room for learning without having to upgrade straight away.

[Boss Hogg]

timrw81 said:

You could do worse than having a look at the new Supersport. It has a 140bhp Sigma engine, LSD, and brilliantly tuned suspension out of the box. I've just spent the last two days driving one on the roads Yorkshire and it's the best Caterham I've driven. The chassis and power seem to be a perfect match for each other. Even though it 'only' has 140bhp, it will still float into oversteer at 60mph plus in 3rd, but the suspension set up (race springs and dampers) is so perfectly judged that, even at high speeds, it never feels scary. Just a cracking package.

Edited by timrw81 on Wednesday 6th June 22:21

I'd second that

[HustleRussell]

VHPD said:

allen l said:

Depending on the type of track, the weather and whether you have a windshield or not, I doubt that. Especially if the driver is as crappy as me!

Okay perhaps I should of mentioned a dry track

The Megane is quoted at 185bhp/tonne and 0-62 in 6 secs and 148mph top speed (carmagazine.co.uk).

I Caterham at 100bhp would be similar bhp/tonne and 0-62 but some way behind in top speed.

But 1230kgs is a lumbering old bus in the corners by comparison to a basic 7.

The club circuit at Brands Hatch my money would be on the 7 but, on reflection, it may be a different story on the GP circuit.

I'd be interested in Hustlerussell's comments having seen him lowflying around the club circuit.


OP I am not dissing the Megane btw

Funnily enough I did my ARDS test at Brands Indy in... A RenaultSport Megane R26 thingy. I really rated it, felt like a very solid and capable car with a lot of grunt. On the downside, I could feel the weight dragging it wide if the entry speed was too high or braking was not committed enough.
My 7 is about as slow as Caterhams get (100bhp, live rear axle) but I've had it into the 57s at Brands Indy, and that is on control tyres (ordinary road tyres) and with the windscreen fitted.
I think the Megane might crack the minute but in the dry the Caterham would be faster. I think the same would hold true at most of the circuits I have visited with the possible exceptions of Thruxton and maybe Mallory park.
As others have suggested though, a well-pedalled Megane may well be quicker in the wet.
To the OP, with that budget, I would suggest a Duratec car and some tuition. The Duratec is a potent engine and it's an ambitious start to your RWD experience, so I feel some restraint and some driver training may be called for.

[Dick Seaman]

Boss Hogg said:

timrw81 said:

You could do worse than having a look at the new Supersport. It has a 140bhp Sigma engine, LSD, and brilliantly tuned suspension out of the box. I've just spent the last two days driving one on the roads Yorkshire and it's the best Caterham I've driven. The chassis and power seem to be a perfect match for each other. Even though it 'only' has 140bhp, it will still float into oversteer at 60mph plus in 3rd, but the suspension set up (race springs and dampers) is so perfectly judged that, even at high speeds, it never feels scary. Just a cracking package.

Edited by timrw81 on Wednesday 6th June 22:21

I'd second that

Great to hear, mine should be ready in about six weeks! Too excited for words.

[timrw81]

Dick Seaman said:

Great to hear, mine should be ready in about six weeks! Too excited for words.

Erm i think you might quite like it

[timrw81]

HustleRussell said:

As others have suggested though, a well-pedalled Megane may well be quicker in the wet.

Funnily enough, here's Tiff Needell testing the two against each other on a narrow, wet and (seemingly) muddy track. R26.R vs 135bhp K Series Caterham.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtAZN_bBOjY

Tim

[huwp]

timrw81 said:

HustleRussell said:

As others have suggested though, a well-pedalled Megane may well be quicker in the wet.

Funnily enough, here's Tiff Needell testing the two against each other on a narrow, wet and (seemingly) muddy track. R26.R vs 135bhp K Series Caterham.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtAZN_bBOjY

Tim

I remember watching this footage at the time. That 7 looked to be running on the harder Avon tyre that came as standard on some of the cars then and a higher ride height. Not that softer tyres and a lower ride height would have helped in those conditions. You've got to hand it to Tiff though; he really is a driving supremo.

FWIW The Caterham will always feel fast even if it isn't. I only have the Roadsport 125 but I love the sense of involvement every time I drive it. Acceleratively my Polo GTI with DSG is quicker but will not brake or handle like the 7, and has no sense of fun by comparison.

If I were buying now I'd go for either the Supersport with lowered floor or a 2.0 Duratec.

The advice that you attend a L7C meeting is spot on.

[Dave J]

if the budget is around £20k, then a new supersport is out of budget. Also a duratec engines car - if an original factory built model is out of buget.

I still stand by a Superlight R or an early R400.

[coppice]

The thing about Sevens is that regardless of the power they all feel utterly unlike any normal road car. The steering is telepathic and the braking is unbelievable- you can make very brisk progress without using the brakes at all- a quick lift will shed you speed very quickly. light weight and rubbish aerodynamics see to that. So Sevens are all pretty similar where it counts- the engine choice is down to whetehr you want to accelarate briskly or ballistically. I have had Sevens from 130bhp to current 220 bhp and they are all massive fun.Round a track they will humiliate seriously expensive stuff and on the road they can be very fast - but don't kid yourself that a Seven will always keep up with a hot hatch on a bumpy and wet B road , or a German uberdiesel on the M1. Of course I can outaccelerate most BMWs to 100 plus but do I really want to endure that speed for any time in a Seven- nope. For character the K series takes some beating- fab noise and extremely revvy. The Duratec makes a crapppy noise in comparison but is hugely torquey and at the top end is manic. Ideal power for first Seven? 160bhp tops and I am sure 125bhp is adequate. 5 or 6 speeds- both are fine but I marginally prefer 6 - crappy cruising but a gear for every corner when blatting .

Beware upgradeitis ...

[HustleRussell]

huwp said:

timrw81 said:

HustleRussell said:

As others have suggested though, a well-pedalled Megane may well be quicker in the wet.

Funnily enough, here's Tiff Needell testing the two against each other on a narrow, wet and (seemingly) muddy track. R26.R vs 135bhp K Series Caterham.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtAZN_bBOjY

Tim

I remember watching this footage at the time. That 7 looked to be running on the harder Avon tyre that came as standard on some of the cars then and a higher ride height. Not that softer tyres and a lower ride height would have helped in those conditions. You've got to hand it to Tiff though; he really is a driving supremo.

Avon CR322 185/70r13 as fitted to Scholarship/Academy cars since 1997 It was designed for family cars and light commercials and it is made from the finest Chinese Thermoplastic.
I'm not surprised the Megane won in those conditions, but the margin was bigger than I would've guessed!