RE: ABD Launch Attack on Darling
Wednesday 5th June 2002
ABD Launch Attack on Darling
ABD go into one over Darling's remark
Discussion
This guy seems like a first class pillock. And, as mentioned somewhere else on PH, there was an article in the Sunday Times about his time as a politician in Edinburgh. He was so anti-car that even today Edinburgh is suffering the consequences of his stupidity. New roads (bypasses etc.) still haven't been built.
We're screwed. Completely. Nuff said
Andy
We're screwed. Completely. Nuff said
Andy
quote:
This guy seems like a first class pillock. And, as mentioned somewhere else on PH, there was an article in the Sunday Times about his time as a politician in Edinburgh. He was so anti-car that even today Edinburgh is suffering the consequences of his stupidity. New roads (bypasses etc.) still haven't been built.
We're screwed. Completely. Nuff said
Andy
Um, Edinburgh has a respectable bypass, finally completed in 1987 as I recall (first bit of d/c/way I drove on after passing my test).
Could do with an extra lane though - distinctly unimpressed when a year of roadworks and major disruption ended not so long ago to find they'd added ... a fr*ggin' hard shoulder, FFS
From personal experience I can say that lack of a decent motorway network will not help this country one bit. I come from the North East (where we regard Sheffield as "down south"), and the place has withered and died because of a lack of motorway connections. The ABD list the A1 to Newcastle as being one of the required motorway upgrades - too little too late.
Just don't let the rest of the country go the same way.
Darling's comments show what an uphill task is ahead. Byers may have been a pr*ck but he didn't seem to be rabidly anti motorist - why would the greens be laying in to him so vehemently if he were? Looks like a case of out of the frying pan ...
Just don't let the rest of the country go the same way.
Darling's comments show what an uphill task is ahead. Byers may have been a pr*ck but he didn't seem to be rabidly anti motorist - why would the greens be laying in to him so vehemently if he were? Looks like a case of out of the frying pan ...
Experince shows that decent roads make a huge difference to the economy.
Before the current A9 was built in the '70s, getting to or from the Highlands was a major undertaking, it would take the best part of a day to do Edinburgh to Inverness. With the "new" road it's 2.5 - 3 hours, suddenly the North was accessible and the economy is booming (well booming compared to the way it was anyway
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Before the current A9 was built in the '70s, getting to or from the Highlands was a major undertaking, it would take the best part of a day to do Edinburgh to Inverness. With the "new" road it's 2.5 - 3 hours, suddenly the North was accessible and the economy is booming (well booming compared to the way it was anyway
)Agreed John, but surely the A9 is a major candidate for motorway or dual carriageway status - it's not as if you have to knock down any buildings after all. Inverness is again becoming a nightmare to get to - cameras, unmarked cars etc and mile long queues behind HGV's - in France it would have been dualed years ago.
That and the A1 ought to be a matter of urgency without debate - we're talking about access to major Cities here - God it pisses me off.....
That and the A1 ought to be a matter of urgency without debate - we're talking about access to major Cities here - God it pisses me off.....
Yeah absolutely, it's a 1970s road in dire need of being upgraded to cope with 21st century demands (or even 1990s demands!). In fact that was one that occurred to me as I read the list.
Point is, though, this was an example of a major road development stimulating the economy. In fact it's probably a victim of its own success: built in the 70s, with a capacity well in excess of the demand at the time - it has stimulated the economy it serves, to the extent that it can no longer cope with the traffic demands placed on it - and is probably again limiting the economic growth.
Incidentally if you're stuck behind slow lorries the old A9 makes a good blast as it's pretty quiet these days - no faster overall than staying at 40-50 behind a lorry but a lot more fun
A1: even more so. Edinburgh - Newcastle is a joke (although not a very funny one).
Point is, though, this was an example of a major road development stimulating the economy. In fact it's probably a victim of its own success: built in the 70s, with a capacity well in excess of the demand at the time - it has stimulated the economy it serves, to the extent that it can no longer cope with the traffic demands placed on it - and is probably again limiting the economic growth.
Incidentally if you're stuck behind slow lorries the old A9 makes a good blast as it's pretty quiet these days - no faster overall than staying at 40-50 behind a lorry but a lot more fun
A1: even more so. Edinburgh - Newcastle is a joke (although not a very funny one).
Saying that the road on the map is shown bigger than real life is stating the obvious really, but the actual effect of a motorway extends miles either side of it. Not only the visual impact, but to a greater degree the noise inflicted on the surroundings is very noticable. Motorways also divide communities by cutting off the smaller roads between settlements, causing all traffic to go via a few main routes. This is not something most people notice until they get out of there car and go into the countryside to see the impact these roads have. I went on a canal holiday last year and the effect of the M40 spoiled a large section of the journey, the quiet of the countryside forever lost to the constant din of heavy traffic for several miles.
I don't care what anyone here says, I don't like motorways - who cares if the economy suffers a bit because a few people are a bit late sometimes, we are one of the richest countries in the world. Our countryside is a limited resource that is constantly under attack from new and often tacky development - it makes me sick (insert that vomiting smiley here)
I don't care what anyone here says, I don't like motorways - who cares if the economy suffers a bit because a few people are a bit late sometimes, we are one of the richest countries in the world. Our countryside is a limited resource that is constantly under attack from new and often tacky development - it makes me sick (insert that vomiting smiley here)
Couldn't agree more John, although I don't feel I know the Perth - Inverness A9 well enough to give it real welly past the convoys - blind corners, plod etc.
On my sadly departed Pan European it was a doddle however - steady 60-80 with a good rythmn, only worry being that those people you're filtering past have seen you.
If our Scottish Parliament means anything the A1 Edinburgh - Newcastle motorway upgrade should be the highest priority - utterly ridiculous that from the Capital you have to drive 40 miles west before you can head south on motorways.
Mind you they haven't even agreed on transport around the Parliament buildings last time I checked - £300 million plus - any advance???
>> Edited by Leithen on Wednesday 5th June 23:48
On my sadly departed Pan European it was a doddle however - steady 60-80 with a good rythmn, only worry being that those people you're filtering past have seen you.
If our Scottish Parliament means anything the A1 Edinburgh - Newcastle motorway upgrade should be the highest priority - utterly ridiculous that from the Capital you have to drive 40 miles west before you can head south on motorways.
Mind you they haven't even agreed on transport around the Parliament buildings last time I checked - £300 million plus - any advance???
>> Edited by Leithen on Wednesday 5th June 23:48
Anyone care to guess how many acres a sphagetti junction takes up?
Oh and Scotland would generally still be fecked if it wasn't for massive subsidies from southern tax-payers , and a few EU cherries on top (regardless of road conditions). And they still hate us! But then l guess the Scots would have a bit of an identity crisis if it wasn't "hate the english".
Oh and Scotland would generally still be fecked if it wasn't for massive subsidies from southern tax-payers , and a few EU cherries on top (regardless of road conditions). And they still hate us! But then l guess the Scots would have a bit of an identity crisis if it wasn't "hate the english".
Last time we looked Funki, we were part of the UK - 300 years or so that way? There's an imbalance in spending country wide in the same way that Tyneside etc would be Fecked without support from the South East... Don't even start on the North Sea Oil side of things either - we'd be here all year.
What we hate are those "short-sighted" people who regard the "North" as anywhere above Watford Gap, I mean you get BBC presenters pointing at Liverpool and saying "In the North"..... For Gods Sake it takes 5 ruddy hours to get there from Edinburgh, Scotland might as well be somewhere between Iceland and the North Pole.... ruddy southerners..look at a ruddy map once in your life BBC presenter..grrrrrrr..
What we hate are those "short-sighted" people who regard the "North" as anywhere above Watford Gap, I mean you get BBC presenters pointing at Liverpool and saying "In the North"..... For Gods Sake it takes 5 ruddy hours to get there from Edinburgh, Scotland might as well be somewhere between Iceland and the North Pole.... ruddy southerners..look at a ruddy map once in your life BBC presenter..grrrrrrr..
quote:
Before the current A9 was built in the '70s, getting to or from the Highlands was a major undertaking, it would take the best part of a day to do Edinburgh to Inverness. With the "new" road it's 2.5 - 3 hours, suddenly the North was accessible and the economy is booming (well booming compared to the way it was anyway
I have to second that. Sunday night, did Tain to Edinburgh in 2h40. (190 miles, 160 minutes) And that was following a queue of traffic for the first 20 miles at 40.
Friday evening heading north was a different matter. OK, bank holiday weekend, but the dual carriageway sections are fine, its just the NSL single carriageway needs upgrading. Or at least a few miles of dual carriageway to free the traffic from lorries and caravans every so often
A1 Edinburgh/Newcastle is a disaster area, especially since the remit to upgrade it is split between Scotland and England - I keep hearing that the budget is there to dual it from Edinburgh to Berwick, and then... another 60 miles of NSL and HGVs. Sigh.
To get back to the original issues.
My late father, who worked for the BRF (British Road Federation) was instrumental getting the M40 extended, the M69, M42 and M54 built as well as campagning for othe roads such as the A45 and M1/A1 link. He worked hard to encourage the building of motorways rather than strings of by-passes.
To there is still much road building to be done. This could be planned in conjuction with freight rail building. More freight should go by rail and most children should go by foot or bus to school.
My late father, who worked for the BRF (British Road Federation) was instrumental getting the M40 extended, the M69, M42 and M54 built as well as campagning for othe roads such as the A45 and M1/A1 link. He worked hard to encourage the building of motorways rather than strings of by-passes.
To there is still much road building to be done. This could be planned in conjuction with freight rail building. More freight should go by rail and most children should go by foot or bus to school.
Well maybe but the A6 goes from London to Carlisle but the M6 only goes from Birmingham to Carlisle, so I'd assumed that the motorway from London to Carlisle would be the M6 ... could make the same argument about the London - B'ham bit of the M1 though and I don't suppose it really matters.
quote:
Saying that the road on the map is shown bigger than real life is stating the obvious really, but the actual effect of a motorway extends miles either side of it. Not only the visual impact, but to a greater degree the noise inflicted on the surroundings is very noticable. Motorways also divide communities by cutting off the smaller roads between settlements, causing all traffic to go via a few main routes. This is not something most people notice until they get out of there car and go into the countryside to see the impact these roads have. I went on a canal holiday last year and the effect of the M40 spoiled a large section of the journey, the quiet of the countryside forever lost to the constant din of heavy traffic for several miles.
I don't care what anyone here says, I don't like motorways - who cares if the economy suffers a bit because a few people are a bit late sometimes, we are one of the richest countries in the world. Our countryside is a limited resource that is constantly under attack from new and often tacky development - it makes me sick (insert that vomiting smiley here)
Well lets all sell our cars, buy horses and return to ye goode olde dayse when the Lord of the Manor told you how and where to work and you could hear all the birds a singing n the bees a buzzin. GET REAL!
Economic growth in this country is TOTALLY dependant on good transport infrastructure. Noise doesn't have to be a problem - there are suitable low-noise surfaces available and noise barriers can be used. Cornwall used to one of the most inaccessible areas - upgrade the A30 to dual carriageway - whoosh - 3 1/2 hours and you're there. Good for local economic growth, good for you (nice place to visit - but don't all go there cos there are some good roads still!
) and not that load at all. Bugger me the sea makes as much noise as a motorway...quote:
Well lets all sell our cars, buy horses and return to ye goode olde dayse when the Lord of the Manor told you how and where to work and you could hear all the birds a singing n the bees a buzzin. GET REAL!
Well, a lot of the tree huggers have this idyllic view of the "good old days" before the industrial revolution where people lived in harmony with nature and helped on another in a caring, sharing kind of way"
Mind you, infant mortality was about 75% and if you lived to 30 before succumbing to some form of pestilence you were doing well. Oh, and your teeth would be ground away by eating bread made from real stoneground flour and you would have to live in constant fear of some big f**ker with a sword taking a fancy to your goods/house/wife/land, and the nearest you'd get to a toilet was the corner you all agreed to sh*t in. And while I think of it you'd have to work eighteen hours a day in the fields to have any chance of getting enough food together to last the winter.
About the closest I've seen to a realistic portrayal of pre-industrial Britain was in Monty Python and The Holy Grail, as in "How do you know he's a king? He isn't all covered in sh*t like the rest of us"
So when you say GET REAL, I think you just about hit the nail (or should that be the handmade wooden peg?) on the head.
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