Why is Button struggling?
Discussion
That's the question isn't it. Why?
His post race interview gave you/ us the answer.
There is no explicable reason and he and the team are damned if they know why.
And nobody in here can say why either, and diplomacy is reigning whilst Button and Mclaren answer that question. A s
t driver Button isn't and people can slag him all they want, but he isn't is he. You don't win the WDC by being st.
Sam Michaels seemed extremely confident there was totally parity in the car, as did Whitmarsh and Paddy Lowe. And Button seemed to stop only just short of blaming himself. So, again, why?
We can't answer it here. It appears to be down to Button but what that is only he can figure out why.
His post race interview gave you/ us the answer.
There is no explicable reason and he and the team are damned if they know why.
And nobody in here can say why either, and diplomacy is reigning whilst Button and Mclaren answer that question. A s
t driver Button isn't and people can slag him all they want, but he isn't is he. You don't win the WDC by being st.Sam Michaels seemed extremely confident there was totally parity in the car, as did Whitmarsh and Paddy Lowe. And Button seemed to stop only just short of blaming himself. So, again, why?
We can't answer it here. It appears to be down to Button but what that is only he can figure out why.
My educated guess, for what it's worth...
Button can't get the tyres up to temperature - he doesn't work them enough. This was a boon last year, obviously not so this year. Someone on the Sky coverage mentioned that Lewis works the fronts much harder - perhaps he is more aggressive on his turn ins, whilst JB is famously smoother?
Because Button's not getting the tyres to heat up into their optimum temperature range, they're not generating enough grip and so he is sliding around on them - losing time sliding in corners, and losing time with wheel spin on corner exits. All this sliding is wearing the tyres out a lot faster than the other drivers who work them harder, get them in the temp window, and don't slide about on them.
Ironically enough, I think this means he's going much slower AND wearing his tyres out faster than anybody else - JB only made half the distance anyone else could on his set of primes in his first stint today, and at a much slower pace.
The remedy would be a car that works the tyres more, but after LH's problems last year and the Pirellis gaining a reputation for being very fragile, perhaps the 2012 McLaren car was designed to be easier on its tyres...?
Button can't get the tyres up to temperature - he doesn't work them enough. This was a boon last year, obviously not so this year. Someone on the Sky coverage mentioned that Lewis works the fronts much harder - perhaps he is more aggressive on his turn ins, whilst JB is famously smoother?
Because Button's not getting the tyres to heat up into their optimum temperature range, they're not generating enough grip and so he is sliding around on them - losing time sliding in corners, and losing time with wheel spin on corner exits. All this sliding is wearing the tyres out a lot faster than the other drivers who work them harder, get them in the temp window, and don't slide about on them.
Ironically enough, I think this means he's going much slower AND wearing his tyres out faster than anybody else - JB only made half the distance anyone else could on his set of primes in his first stint today, and at a much slower pace.
The remedy would be a car that works the tyres more, but after LH's problems last year and the Pirellis gaining a reputation for being very fragile, perhaps the 2012 McLaren car was designed to be easier on its tyres...?
timbob said:
My educated guess, for what it's worth...
Button can't get the tyres up to temperature - he doesn't work them enough. This was a boon last year, obviously not so this year. Someone on the Sky coverage mentioned that Lewis works the fronts much harder - perhaps he is more aggressive on his turn ins, whilst JB is famously smoother?
Because Button's not getting the tyres to heat up into their optimum temperature range, they're not generating enough grip and so he is sliding around on them - losing time sliding in corners, and losing time with wheel spin on corner exits. All this sliding is wearing the tyres out a lot faster than the other drivers who work them harder, get them in the temp window, and don't slide about on them.
Ironically enough, I think this means he's going much slower AND wearing his tyres out faster than anybody else - JB only made half the distance anyone else could on his set of primes in his first stint today, and at a much slower pace.
The remedy would be a car that works the tyres more, but after LH's problems last year and the Pirellis gaining a reputation for being very fragile, perhaps the 2012 McLaren car was designed to be easier on its tyres...?
I just dont buy this, its too obvious and is what everyone is saying. Do we not think Jenson has considered and analysed to death such an obvious cause?Button can't get the tyres up to temperature - he doesn't work them enough. This was a boon last year, obviously not so this year. Someone on the Sky coverage mentioned that Lewis works the fronts much harder - perhaps he is more aggressive on his turn ins, whilst JB is famously smoother?
Because Button's not getting the tyres to heat up into their optimum temperature range, they're not generating enough grip and so he is sliding around on them - losing time sliding in corners, and losing time with wheel spin on corner exits. All this sliding is wearing the tyres out a lot faster than the other drivers who work them harder, get them in the temp window, and don't slide about on them.
Ironically enough, I think this means he's going much slower AND wearing his tyres out faster than anybody else - JB only made half the distance anyone else could on his set of primes in his first stint today, and at a much slower pace.
The remedy would be a car that works the tyres more, but after LH's problems last year and the Pirellis gaining a reputation for being very fragile, perhaps the 2012 McLaren car was designed to be easier on its tyres...?
There is something much more subtle going on which is probably a very complicated combination of driving style, tyres, set up and temperature. And probably a hundred other things too!
If anyone on here knows the answer without having spent numerous nights studying Maclarens data, I would suggest they ring up Ron for a job.
MTR
Vocal Minority said:
I think he and Hamilton have swapped places from last year.
Button has had a bad run, and it is getting in his head, and Hamilton is now gaining some momentum.
It's pretty inexplicable. Just not fast enough at the moment.
Except that Hamilton has been faster than Button in qualifying last year(despite having bad period), and he probably would have also been in front regarding total points if not for crashing with Massa and some others(many thrived on it, incl. great Lauda who I otherwise appreciate). In fact he was faster in more races so your comparison with Button this year is biased. Button simply is not a proper racer and cannot extract as much from the car as Hamilton. He will have to accept it if he wants to stay at Mclaren.Button has had a bad run, and it is getting in his head, and Hamilton is now gaining some momentum.
It's pretty inexplicable. Just not fast enough at the moment.
mollytherocker said:
timbob said:
My educated guess, for what it's worth...
Button can't get the tyres up to temperature - he doesn't work them enough. This was a boon last year, obviously not so this year. Someone on the Sky coverage mentioned that Lewis works the fronts much harder - perhaps he is more aggressive on his turn ins, whilst JB is famously smoother?
Because Button's not getting the tyres to heat up into their optimum temperature range, they're not generating enough grip and so he is sliding around on them - losing time sliding in corners, and losing time with wheel spin on corner exits. All this sliding is wearing the tyres out a lot faster than the other drivers who work them harder, get them in the temp window, and don't slide about on them.
Ironically enough, I think this means he's going much slower AND wearing his tyres out faster than anybody else - JB only made half the distance anyone else could on his set of primes in his first stint today, and at a much slower pace.
The remedy would be a car that works the tyres more, but after LH's problems last year and the Pirellis gaining a reputation for being very fragile, perhaps the 2012 McLaren car was designed to be easier on its tyres...?
I just dont buy this, its too obvious and is what everyone is saying. Do we not think Jenson has considered and analysed to death such an obvious cause?Button can't get the tyres up to temperature - he doesn't work them enough. This was a boon last year, obviously not so this year. Someone on the Sky coverage mentioned that Lewis works the fronts much harder - perhaps he is more aggressive on his turn ins, whilst JB is famously smoother?
Because Button's not getting the tyres to heat up into their optimum temperature range, they're not generating enough grip and so he is sliding around on them - losing time sliding in corners, and losing time with wheel spin on corner exits. All this sliding is wearing the tyres out a lot faster than the other drivers who work them harder, get them in the temp window, and don't slide about on them.
Ironically enough, I think this means he's going much slower AND wearing his tyres out faster than anybody else - JB only made half the distance anyone else could on his set of primes in his first stint today, and at a much slower pace.
The remedy would be a car that works the tyres more, but after LH's problems last year and the Pirellis gaining a reputation for being very fragile, perhaps the 2012 McLaren car was designed to be easier on its tyres...?
There is something much more subtle going on which is probably a very complicated combination of driving style, tyres, set up and temperature. And probably a hundred other things too!
If anyone on here knows the answer without having spent numerous nights studying Maclarens data, I would suggest they ring up Ron for a job.
MTR
hotmelt said:
Button simply is not a proper racer and cannot extract as much from the car as Hamilton. He will have to accept it if he wants to stay at Mclaren.
patent, predictable, drivel!The thought that crossed my mind, given no one in the team seems sure why it is - and Ron Dennis said last night 'it's not Jenson - there is something going on with the car/setup' but also that he had a different suspension set up; is maybe there is something like a crack in the tub? So not something that is obvious or easy to find, but unbalances the car.
He IS a racer (your memory clearly runs to less than 12 months if you think otherwise)
regarding staying at McLaren - JB is the one with a contract for next year & Ron Dennis effectively said on Sky last night that Lewis needs to take a pay cut if he wants to stay at McLaren!
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