Calling all Engineers.
Discussion
no-worries88 said:
In a 4 year Apprenticeship in milling and turning etc,what is the qualification at the end of it all? Also what options are the for university progression after it? Any courses specific to milling and turning or similar? Any help appreciated.
Exactly what I did. You will have an Advanced modern apprenticeship in Mechanical Engineering and Qualified to NVQ Level 3, either City and Guilds or BTEC depending which route you go down. You will probably get the opportunity to do Level 4 and 5 which will get you a HNC. Something I wish I had done now I'm looking for a way off the shopfloor. At the time I had my stupid head on and just wanted out of the education side of it.
Leptons said:
Exactly what I did. You will have an Advanced modern apprenticeship in Mechanical Engineering and Qualified to NVQ Level 3, either City and Guilds or BTEC depending which route you go down.
You will probably get the opportunity to do Level 4 and 5 which will get you a HNC. Something I wish I had done now I'm looking for a way off the shopfloor. At the time I had my stupid head on and just wanted out of the education side of it.
Hi,thanks for your comment,could you tell me a bit more about the level 4 and 5? As in where it could lead? I never knew there was a 4 and 5,just thought it stopped at 3. RegardsYou will probably get the opportunity to do Level 4 and 5 which will get you a HNC. Something I wish I had done now I'm looking for a way off the shopfloor. At the time I had my stupid head on and just wanted out of the education side of it.
Actually I think it stops at level 4 and then HNC. Basically after that You are into Degree territory. I am just trying to get my head around it myself.
Some more info here: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/EducationAndLearning/Q...
Some more info here: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/EducationAndLearning/Q...
Crafty_ said:
I would of thought solid experience in using CNC machines and the like would be more important than a qualification ?
Everything seems to be about the qualification these days,you could have 10 years experience of something,but if you're not 'qualified' to do it I think you will be overlooked.ATTAK Z said:
Crafty_ said:
I would of thought solid experience in using CNC machines and the like would be more important than a qualification ?
Yes but posting using good English, punctuation and grammar is is important too ... for an Engineer ... and you haven'tKinda stupid i'd guess..
ATTAK Z said:
Crafty_ said:
I would of thought solid experience in using CNC machines and the like would be more important than a qualification ?
Yes but posting using good English, punctuation and grammar is is important too ... for an Engineer ... and you haven't
I beg a thousand pardons sir, is is that good enough ?
Now how about posting something useful to help the OP out?
a HNC is a level 4 qualification
The National Qualifications Framework runs from sub-level 1 to level 8
sub level 1 is really really basic stuff - almost into the realms of 'special needs'
level 1 is GCSE D-G and stuff like BTEC 'first'
level 2 is GCSE A*-C plus the obvious NVQ 2
level 3 is A levels, NVQ3 and Stuff like ND
level4 is CertHE, HNC
level 5 is HND, DipHE, Foundation degree
level 6 is Degree level
level 7 is Masters level
level 8 is Doctoral level
NVQs at level 4 or 5 fit in at different places in NQF 4 -8 depending on content
The National Qualifications Framework runs from sub-level 1 to level 8
sub level 1 is really really basic stuff - almost into the realms of 'special needs'
level 1 is GCSE D-G and stuff like BTEC 'first'
level 2 is GCSE A*-C plus the obvious NVQ 2
level 3 is A levels, NVQ3 and Stuff like ND
level4 is CertHE, HNC
level 5 is HND, DipHE, Foundation degree
level 6 is Degree level
level 7 is Masters level
level 8 is Doctoral level
NVQs at level 4 or 5 fit in at different places in NQF 4 -8 depending on content
Edited by mph1977 on Wednesday 13th June 00:19
The way the current skills set in the UK is going. If you can use a Manual Mill and Manual Lathe to a good degree of accuracy, as well as being able to program CNC both with and without CAM facilities, then you will be naming your price in 10 years’ time.
Trying to find someone under 40 with those skills today is hard enough. Also with the older boys retiring the pool is getting smaller and smaller but the demand is still there especially as the UK is geared to low volume, high value manufacturing.
Trying to find someone under 40 with those skills today is hard enough. Also with the older boys retiring the pool is getting smaller and smaller but the demand is still there especially as the UK is geared to low volume, high value manufacturing.
no-worries88 said:
In a 4 year Apprenticeship in milling and turning etc,what is the qualification at the end of it all? Also what options are the for university progression after it? Any courses specific to milling and turning or similar? Any help appreciated.
I'll be honest ...Engineering at University isn't about milling and turning, this might be covered at colleges that have been given 'university' status but not at 'red brick' establishments.
Engineering at degree level is all about maths, maths and maths. Apart from perhaps 1 week where you go offsite and spend some time learning the very basics about welding, milling etc ... you won't even pick up a spanner.
I don't mean to put down, your skills in milling and turning, they are very much needed and required, but rightly or wrongly they don't feature in an engineering degree.
Martin
mph999 said:
I'll be honest ...
Engineering at University isn't about milling and turning, this might be covered at colleges that have been given 'university' status but not at 'red brick' establishments.
Engineering at degree level is all about maths, maths and maths. Apart from perhaps 1 week where you go offsite and spend some time learning the very basics about welding, milling etc ... you won't even pick up a spanner.
I don't mean to put down, your skills in milling and turning, they are very much needed and required, but rightly or wrongly they don't feature in an engineering degree.
Martin
I have an engineering degree from a red-brick uni and he's right.Engineering at University isn't about milling and turning, this might be covered at colleges that have been given 'university' status but not at 'red brick' establishments.
Engineering at degree level is all about maths, maths and maths. Apart from perhaps 1 week where you go offsite and spend some time learning the very basics about welding, milling etc ... you won't even pick up a spanner.
I don't mean to put down, your skills in milling and turning, they are very much needed and required, but rightly or wrongly they don't feature in an engineering degree.
Martin
In your shoes, maybe the best thing education-wise would be to carry on and go down the HNC/HMD route.
I see a few jobs advertised wanting Degree/HND
That way you'd be interviewing next to someone who has a degree, wehereas you would have something pretty close to a degree (and a recognised high-level qualification in it's own right) a lot of relevant experience and no student debt.
Just a thought.
stumpage said:
the demand is still there especially as the UK is geared to low volume, high value manufacturing.
Absolutely,Spot on, there is also a growing interest from buyers in home grown products.
There will always be areas where the UK will never compete with markets such as China and India due to the sheer size of workforces but when it comes to specialist and urgent manufactured goods we are in an advantageous position.
China are starting to get quite expensive now especially when you consider the extra hassle of shipping and customs clearance.
Stick with the shop floor for the moment, it is much easier to get a degree than actual hands on machining experience. You will be much more valuable in a few years time than if you ditch it to get a degree in engineering.
With an apprenticeship for 4 years typically you might (seems common in my area) gain the following if you have GCSEs of A*-C grades:
In the first year - NVQ Level 2 and BTEC National Diploma (I think this was ONC)- typically 4 days NVQ and one day doing National Diploma.
Second Year - Start NVQ Level 3 and carry on with BTEC National Diploma.
Third Year - Continue NVQ Level 3 and start Higher National Certificate (HNC).
Fourth Year - Finish NVQ Level 3 and finish Higher National Certificate (HNC).
After the apprenticeship on a day release basis you may do a HND/ Degree etc.
If starting with GCSE grades a little lower you may do a BTEC First Diploma for a year (in place of the BTEC National Diploma), then start the process beginning with BTEC National Diploma.
The NVQ Level two may be 9 or 12 months in a training centre (less likely to be in house even with bigger companies these days) or the whole thing may be in 'blocks' on and off the 'job'.
The NVQ is where the milling (1) and turning (2)(probably conventional (1), CNC (1), conventional (2), CNC (2), in some order, depending on companies wishes.will take place as well as when doing the shop floor job. There may be smaller stints of other bits (maybe a little fitting, drawing etc.) including a small classroom stint.
The BTEC may be made up of many classes, general useful such as Maths, Mechanics, Drawing, H&S, Use of materials, a project etc.
You need a company intrested in taking someone on for Milling and Turning for the Mechanical Engineering, if that's your interest. There are other things like Welding, Electrical, Maintenance (and many more).
After this some companies may let you do a paid for degree on a day release basis, (maybe one day per week), whilst still on the sop floor as a qualified skilled person Milling, Turning or whatever.
Different places have different systems so how it all fits in may be very different to what I've spouted.
Drop me a line if you want to know a bit more, cheers.
HTH.
In the first year - NVQ Level 2 and BTEC National Diploma (I think this was ONC)- typically 4 days NVQ and one day doing National Diploma.
Second Year - Start NVQ Level 3 and carry on with BTEC National Diploma.
Third Year - Continue NVQ Level 3 and start Higher National Certificate (HNC).
Fourth Year - Finish NVQ Level 3 and finish Higher National Certificate (HNC).
After the apprenticeship on a day release basis you may do a HND/ Degree etc.
If starting with GCSE grades a little lower you may do a BTEC First Diploma for a year (in place of the BTEC National Diploma), then start the process beginning with BTEC National Diploma.
The NVQ Level two may be 9 or 12 months in a training centre (less likely to be in house even with bigger companies these days) or the whole thing may be in 'blocks' on and off the 'job'.
The NVQ is where the milling (1) and turning (2)(probably conventional (1), CNC (1), conventional (2), CNC (2), in some order, depending on companies wishes.will take place as well as when doing the shop floor job. There may be smaller stints of other bits (maybe a little fitting, drawing etc.) including a small classroom stint.
The BTEC may be made up of many classes, general useful such as Maths, Mechanics, Drawing, H&S, Use of materials, a project etc.
You need a company intrested in taking someone on for Milling and Turning for the Mechanical Engineering, if that's your interest. There are other things like Welding, Electrical, Maintenance (and many more).
After this some companies may let you do a paid for degree on a day release basis, (maybe one day per week), whilst still on the sop floor as a qualified skilled person Milling, Turning or whatever.
Different places have different systems so how it all fits in may be very different to what I've spouted.
Drop me a line if you want to know a bit more, cheers.
HTH.
Edited by PH lurker on Thursday 14th June 18:55
stumpage said:
The way the current skills set in the UK is going. If you can use a Manual Mill and Manual Lathe to a good degree of accuracy, as well as being able to program CNC both with and without CAM facilities, then you will be naming your price in 10 years’ time.
Trying to find someone under 40 with those skills today is hard enough. Also with the older boys retiring the pool is getting smaller and smaller but the demand is still there especially as the UK is geared to low volume, high value manufacturing.
I have been saying this since 1990. It's just not going to happen.Trying to find someone under 40 with those skills today is hard enough. Also with the older boys retiring the pool is getting smaller and smaller but the demand is still there especially as the UK is geared to low volume, high value manufacturing.
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