996TTS worth the extra £'s?
Discussion
Having finally decided to go for a 996TT I am wondering if the extra cost of an S model is really worth paying. From what I understand it has larger turbos than stock (same as X50 package) plus ceramics if still there and a few other little bits and pieces.
My gut feel is as always buy on condition whether if it's a std TT, X50 model or S is secondary, but what would be a fair premium assuming stock and the same condition.? The S is going to be newer so it will have an age as well as spec premium. looking at the classifieds a std TT seems to be mid 20's if buying privately up to 30 for trade and an S around £35k, which is getting towards 997TT money (give or take 10k)
I will only be using the car on the road, maybe the odd road trip to Germany, but am unlikely to track it so I'm sure all will be plenty fast enough for me
My gut feel is as always buy on condition whether if it's a std TT, X50 model or S is secondary, but what would be a fair premium assuming stock and the same condition.? The S is going to be newer so it will have an age as well as spec premium. looking at the classifieds a std TT seems to be mid 20's if buying privately up to 30 for trade and an S around £35k, which is getting towards 997TT money (give or take 10k)
I will only be using the car on the road, maybe the odd road trip to Germany, but am unlikely to track it so I'm sure all will be plenty fast enough for me
I was in a similar position in January and posted exactly the same question - see link.
From a price perspective all IMVHO of course I think you are looking at a 30k mile X50 2003/04 at around £33k at a good indy, a similar mileage though 2 year newer TTS will be nearer £40k. Both the X50 and the TTS can be had for around £5k less if you are prepared to sacrifice condition, mileage, history, etc. Bottom line I have seen a TTS for is around £35k with nearly 50k on the clock. It's purely your personal priorities and choice that will tell you whether they are worth more, but the market seems to think so.
So what did I do? Well I decided I would take the first and best X50/TTS that I could find. My logic was they've done most of their depreciating, the VFM is unbelievable, the 997 still had/has some way to go and they were held in high regard from all the feedback received through PH.
As another recent thread stated it's the good ones that are harder to come by. Low mileage, original paint and panel and with no scary rev range issues to worry about. The best advice is to buy on condition, you will know the car for you when you see it and it probably won't fit within any pre-determined price bracket you have set yourself because good cars will always command a premium over the average.
In the end I paid 'top end' for a 10k mile TTS that was like new in every respect. It was the car I was looking for and better for me than a more leggy 997 for similar money.
You pays your money, you takes your choices!
From a price perspective all IMVHO of course I think you are looking at a 30k mile X50 2003/04 at around £33k at a good indy, a similar mileage though 2 year newer TTS will be nearer £40k. Both the X50 and the TTS can be had for around £5k less if you are prepared to sacrifice condition, mileage, history, etc. Bottom line I have seen a TTS for is around £35k with nearly 50k on the clock. It's purely your personal priorities and choice that will tell you whether they are worth more, but the market seems to think so.
So what did I do? Well I decided I would take the first and best X50/TTS that I could find. My logic was they've done most of their depreciating, the VFM is unbelievable, the 997 still had/has some way to go and they were held in high regard from all the feedback received through PH.
As another recent thread stated it's the good ones that are harder to come by. Low mileage, original paint and panel and with no scary rev range issues to worry about. The best advice is to buy on condition, you will know the car for you when you see it and it probably won't fit within any pre-determined price bracket you have set yourself because good cars will always command a premium over the average.
In the end I paid 'top end' for a 10k mile TTS that was like new in every respect. It was the car I was looking for and better for me than a more leggy 997 for similar money.
You pays your money, you takes your choices!
I am with Paul (Podro) on this one but biased obviously as I have one (turbo 'S') as well!
Paid top money for it.
It is nice to have a porsche a little bit more special. A 993 turbo is 50k and a 993 turbo 'S' is £120k. So for £5-6k more over a vanilla 996 turbo, you can get a 996 turbo 'S' is a no-brainer in my opinion.
Mine has 20k miles and x73 suspension and total complete carbon fiber interior, making it a special car.
Personally, I would go 996 turbo S coupe manual which is the rarest (600 built worldwide). Rarest tham the convertible.
If you start counting pennies on a car like this anyway (trying to squeeze £1-2k here and there), then a 996/7 turbo is DENIFITELY NOT a car for you. Maintenance and running costs of a poorly maintained car will hurt you bad.
As usual: buy the best you can afford.
Paid top money for it.
It is nice to have a porsche a little bit more special. A 993 turbo is 50k and a 993 turbo 'S' is £120k. So for £5-6k more over a vanilla 996 turbo, you can get a 996 turbo 'S' is a no-brainer in my opinion.
Mine has 20k miles and x73 suspension and total complete carbon fiber interior, making it a special car.
Personally, I would go 996 turbo S coupe manual which is the rarest (600 built worldwide). Rarest tham the convertible.
If you start counting pennies on a car like this anyway (trying to squeeze £1-2k here and there), then a 996/7 turbo is DENIFITELY NOT a car for you. Maintenance and running costs of a poorly maintained car will hurt you bad.
As usual: buy the best you can afford.
I've got a 996 manual turbo X50 which I have owned from new. It's amazing & I am loathe to sell it.
However I am going to Silverstone next week to drive a 997 GT3 and a 997 turbo, in case I feel like adding a car or changing my 911.
Having only covered just over 18,000 miles from new, with a full Porsche service history & a full Porsche warranty until May 2013, I hope that I will
get a 'fair price' for such a pristine car if i decide to sell.
However I am going to Silverstone next week to drive a 997 GT3 and a 997 turbo, in case I feel like adding a car or changing my 911.
Having only covered just over 18,000 miles from new, with a full Porsche service history & a full Porsche warranty until May 2013, I hope that I will
get a 'fair price' for such a pristine car if i decide to sell.
erics said:
It is nice to have a porsche a little bit more special. A 993 turbo is 50k and a 993 turbo 'S' is £120k. So for £5-6k more over a vanilla 996 turbo, you can get a 996 turbo 'S' is a no-brainer in my opinion.
Whilst that may be true, I don't think its relevant in the context of the 996.There is no way a 996tS is ever going to be worth double a std turbo (like for like).
I was expecting such a comment coming from someone.
Yet, I maintain my point: a £5-6k spread (996TTS / 996TT) versus a £70k spread (993TTS / 993 TT) makes the 996 TTS relatively good value. You are obviously entitled to disagree. I did put my money where my mouth is and well happy i did.
If these were trading in derivative markets, I would buy the former spread and sell the latter!
Was the 993tts much more than a super optioned 993tt? Answer is no.
Same goes for 996tts.
Then we can obviously talk about production numbers.
Yet, I maintain my point: a £5-6k spread (996TTS / 996TT) versus a £70k spread (993TTS / 993 TT) makes the 996 TTS relatively good value. You are obviously entitled to disagree. I did put my money where my mouth is and well happy i did.
If these were trading in derivative markets, I would buy the former spread and sell the latter!
Was the 993tts much more than a super optioned 993tt? Answer is no.
Same goes for 996tts.
Then we can obviously talk about production numbers.
monthefish said:
Whilst that may be true, I don't think its relevant in the context of the 996.
There is no way a 996tS is ever going to be worth double a std turbo (like for like).
There is no way a 996tS is ever going to be worth double a std turbo (like for like).
erics said:
Yet, I maintain my point: a £5-6k spread (996TTS / 996TT) versus a £70k spread (993TTS / 993 TT) makes the 996 TTS relatively good value. You are obviously entitled to disagree. I did put my money where my mouth is and well happy i did.
If these were trading in derivative markets, I would buy the former spread and sell the latter!
I think that logic is very hard to fault.If these were trading in derivative markets, I would buy the former spread and sell the latter!
erics said:
Was the 993tts much more than a super optioned 993tt? Answer is no.
Same goes for 996tts.
There were quite a few changes on the 993tS that weren't available on the options list for the std turbo, not least the ducts in the rear arches.Same goes for 996tts.
The same can't be said for the 996 which was just a well optioned-turbo.
Thanks for the input and especially the links to where this was discussed earlier. My concern is / was re over paying as there is a pretty wide spread of asking prices and I'm not sure if the condition always reflects this. I don't want to buy so low a mileage car that I feel bad every time I put miles on it, but similarly don't want one with galactic miles either
dynamo69, if yours needs a home once you've test driven the new ones you know where I am
dynamo69, if yours needs a home once you've test driven the new ones you know where I am
There is no discernible difference in performance between the three. Everyone will tell you the one they have is best one to go for. So I will do the same - go for the standard turbo! You are not going to get any noticeable difference with the x50 or the 's'.
In all seriousness, if I was buying today I would buy any of the three - whichever came up first in my desired spec and in top condition at the right price. ( when I was looking I had a slight hankering for the s coupe but impossible to find - anyway the standard is quick enough )
In all seriousness, if I was buying today I would buy any of the three - whichever came up first in my desired spec and in top condition at the right price. ( when I was looking I had a slight hankering for the s coupe but impossible to find - anyway the standard is quick enough )
Porkupine said:
There is no discernible difference in performance between the three. Everyone will tell you the one they have is best one to go for. So I will do the same - go for the standard turbo! You are not going to get any noticeable difference with the x50 or the 's'.
In all seriousness, if I was buying today I would buy any of the three - whichever came up first in my desired spec and in top condition at the right price. ( when I was looking I had a slight hankering for the s coupe but impossible to find - anyway the standard is quick enough )
I've had both and could certainly tell the difference between the X50 and the standard??In all seriousness, if I was buying today I would buy any of the three - whichever came up first in my desired spec and in top condition at the right price. ( when I was looking I had a slight hankering for the s coupe but impossible to find - anyway the standard is quick enough )
I liked the clout of the X50, some people prefer the more linier power delivery of the standard turbo.
Try both, buy on condition and which you prefer.
Having had all of them I beg to differ. They are VERY different. Even more so when remapped.
In fact a regular 996 turbo *with a remap* may be the sweetest one in normal day to day driving: the small turbos pick up very quickly and you do not need to rev the car hard to enjoy it.
The x50 kit (same in turbo 'S') is slower to spool but the top end is a LOT fiercer.
It really depends what your driving style is. If you like lazy accessible power, k16s with remap are better. If you like to drive your car hard, an x50 car is the way to go. You can learn the car and remap it at a later stage if you get bored.
A k16 car 'out of the box' (not remapped) is a bit slow witted and a bit boring to be honest.
In fact a regular 996 turbo *with a remap* may be the sweetest one in normal day to day driving: the small turbos pick up very quickly and you do not need to rev the car hard to enjoy it.
The x50 kit (same in turbo 'S') is slower to spool but the top end is a LOT fiercer.
It really depends what your driving style is. If you like lazy accessible power, k16s with remap are better. If you like to drive your car hard, an x50 car is the way to go. You can learn the car and remap it at a later stage if you get bored.
A k16 car 'out of the box' (not remapped) is a bit slow witted and a bit boring to be honest.
Porkupine said:
There is no discernible difference in performance between the three. Everyone will tell you the one they have is best one to go for. So I will do the same - go for the standard turbo! You are not going to get any noticeable difference with the x50 or the 's'.
In all seriousness, if I was buying today I would buy any of the three - whichever came up first in my desired spec and in top condition at the right price. ( when I was looking I had a slight hankering for the s coupe but impossible to find - anyway the standard is quick enough )
In all seriousness, if I was buying today I would buy any of the three - whichever came up first in my desired spec and in top condition at the right price. ( when I was looking I had a slight hankering for the s coupe but impossible to find - anyway the standard is quick enough )
Its all opinions isn't it...best advice have a drive and find out yourself. I didn't particularly like the longer lag on the x50, but had the right one come up, would have gone for it...I would disagree that they are VERY different, but again opinions...like everybody on this forum raves about the GTS, it is something I went out to have a look at before I bought my 997 turbo, and I didn't see what all the fuss was about...nice refined car...but didn't feel special to me...I just prefer the turbos I suppose!
erics said:
It really depends what your driving style is. If you like lazy accessible power, k16s with remap are better. If you like to drive your car hard, an x50 car is the way to go . You can learn the car and remap it at a later stage if you get bored.
I take it you're referring to track use, no? I can't imagine there are many road opportunities to drive an X50 (or a vanilla turbo) hard without being prepared to wave goodbye to your licence if caught.Stock 996TT vs X50, both as they left the showroom, X50 is less snappy than standard car, to some people might actually feel slower and less responsive. With the old turbo tech there was always more lag from bigger turbos. The best compromise IMHO has to be a remapped non x50. Like a standard car only more, stronger everywhere all the way through the rev range with no lag. X50 apparantly responds to a remap very well it would be interesting to see a poster with a story. I'm not sure the S is worth the extra unless you really wanted one, but that's the same for any purchase. It's possible some 996TTs have/ are sold without the owner being aware they have the x50 option. I showed one owner his options sticker he was amazed there was this option. Now that would be a bargain finding such a car advertised as standard. The whole turbo size thing must have been a challenge to Porsche because they fitted the 997tt with vtg turbos, effectively two turbos in one. However the linear power of the power delivery and very quiet engine don't give much more sensation of speed than the 996tt, but you can't stop progress.
Acf69 I'd keep your options open, there's some good advice above, just keep your eye out for the right spec car for you. If it comes with X50 or even S then more's the bonus, but as soon as you start to say it has to be a certain colour, manual, mileage, provenance, etc. your options become very limited as I found out. It also tends to be the case that as most owners realise they "have a good un" they will hang onto it, so not getting any easier to find.
Greg66 has a point too as I have found out in the short space of time I have had mine - you need to be travelling at some serious speed and be an above average driver to get near the limit of any turbo on the road.
Greg66 has a point too as I have found out in the short space of time I have had mine - you need to be travelling at some serious speed and be an above average driver to get near the limit of any turbo on the road.
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