The best value modern cars of yester-year?
Discussion
I am slowly coming to the conclusion that my 1995 VW Corrado VR6 is too old and rattly for everyday use, so this has got me thinking of something I can replace it with without spending too much money....
After a quick look over the classifieds I see that £2500 buys a very nice E46 323ci, a few 325ci have come up too. The build quality and ease of everyday use knock my old Corrado into a cocked hat. Yes I know they are an old BMW so the image isn't the best but I'm thick skinned enough not to care.
I've also seen that if you add another £1k to that you get a truly modern car, a Mazda RX8. I know they drink fuel/oil and there are neglected ones out there but I get the feeling that the second hand car market is rather desperate at the minute and if you were to find a private owner selling an honest example you could get a very good cash deal.
Are there any other cars out there like the two I've seen? They must be able to cut it with truly modern cars, both in function and aesthetics, have 4 seats, be enjoyable to drive and be at the point where good honest ones can't really get any cheaper!
After a quick look over the classifieds I see that £2500 buys a very nice E46 323ci, a few 325ci have come up too. The build quality and ease of everyday use knock my old Corrado into a cocked hat. Yes I know they are an old BMW so the image isn't the best but I'm thick skinned enough not to care.
I've also seen that if you add another £1k to that you get a truly modern car, a Mazda RX8. I know they drink fuel/oil and there are neglected ones out there but I get the feeling that the second hand car market is rather desperate at the minute and if you were to find a private owner selling an honest example you could get a very good cash deal.
Are there any other cars out there like the two I've seen? They must be able to cut it with truly modern cars, both in function and aesthetics, have 4 seats, be enjoyable to drive and be at the point where good honest ones can't really get any cheaper!
Another car that has come to my attention is the Mk1 TT, it seems the market for these starts at under £3k now so if you had £3.5 -£4k and found a seller eager to deal you could get a nice one for everyday use. They have nice interiors, drive pretty well from what I've heard and have 4 seat practicality and are presentable.
Any others?
Any others?
NelsonR32 said:
I went from a Corrado VR6 to a 2002 325i Sport facelift.
THE E46 is more than an acceptable and cheap daily. BUT, do not sell the Corrado. I regret selling mine now even though finances dictated it.
I have thought that I might regret selling my Corrado but I've realised that it isn't the last one in the world and if I regretted selling it that much I could always just buy another. Why don't you buy another? THE E46 is more than an acceptable and cheap daily. BUT, do not sell the Corrado. I regret selling mine now even though finances dictated it.
TameRacingDriver said:
Clio 172 / 182. Cheap as chips
But one hell of a backward step. I'd stick with the VR6 any day of the week compared with any French hot hatch that isn't a clio 197/clio V6
OP why do you feel the Corrado is too old to use as a daily? how many miles are on it and what kind of maintenance jobs have you had to do recently? Has the engine had its cam chains/tensioners head gasket+clutch done in the last few years?
aka_kerrly said:
But one hell of a backward step.
I'd stick with the VR6 any day of the week compared with any French hot hatch that isn't a clio 197/clio V6
OP why do you feel the Corrado is too old to use as a daily? how many miles are on it and what kind of maintenance jobs have you had to do recently? Has the engine had its cam chains/tensioners head gasket+clutch done in the last few years?
In what respect?I'd stick with the VR6 any day of the week compared with any French hot hatch that isn't a clio 197/clio V6
OP why do you feel the Corrado is too old to use as a daily? how many miles are on it and what kind of maintenance jobs have you had to do recently? Has the engine had its cam chains/tensioners head gasket+clutch done in the last few years?
Similar pace, handles at least as well, fairly cheap to run and easily tolerable as a daily driver.
I grant you the VR6 engine is a peach, and the 'rado has that "dub scene" thing going on, but the clios are still fun cars. I've heard many say that the 197s are no more fun than the older cars.
Sometimes better the devil you know though, I agree.
I've had the vr6 for nearly four years now and I do love it however it lives outside all year and the amount of imperfections in the paintwork now means the only way to fix it would be a respray which is a lot of money for a car that sits on the street.
I've had lots of work done on it in my ownership including heater matrix, radiator, all discs and pads, all new top mounts and rear bushes, rear brake lines and fluid, gearbox oil, leads plugs etc all genuine parts and it starts and runs great. The fuel pump went recently and it's been a real task finding the parts to replace it, it's been 2 weeks off the road now! There's no history of the clutch being done but it's on 133000 miles now so it must've been done at some point. It's on its original gasket and chains.
It has got electric heated leather recaro interior which was a very rare factory option but after going on journeys in my friends modern vws and audis my car feels ancient in comparison. In their cars there isn't a single rattle or squeak. In mine I wouldnt know where to begin in identifying all of the cabin noises! I have got it quite low on 17 abt wheels with 40 profile tyres so that probably doesn't help the crashy ride!
I've had lots of work done on it in my ownership including heater matrix, radiator, all discs and pads, all new top mounts and rear bushes, rear brake lines and fluid, gearbox oil, leads plugs etc all genuine parts and it starts and runs great. The fuel pump went recently and it's been a real task finding the parts to replace it, it's been 2 weeks off the road now! There's no history of the clutch being done but it's on 133000 miles now so it must've been done at some point. It's on its original gasket and chains.
It has got electric heated leather recaro interior which was a very rare factory option but after going on journeys in my friends modern vws and audis my car feels ancient in comparison. In their cars there isn't a single rattle or squeak. In mine I wouldnt know where to begin in identifying all of the cabin noises! I have got it quite low on 17 abt wheels with 40 profile tyres so that probably doesn't help the crashy ride!
What a confusing thread title.
I've been looking for something similar to replace my 20 year old MX5 deathtrap, and E46 with a big engine is pretty much the only thing I can find that I could live with. Thing is for that money there are older cars I prefer, and for a bit less money there are older cars I prefer and can afford to run.
Basically I'm stuck in a time warp of 80's and 90's cars - this morning I was talking about selling the Elise for a really nice 635CSi FFS.
So in conclusion: Corrado. Or an ITR which I think looks much newer than a Corrado, but is in budget, won't break and won't lose much, if any, money.
I've been looking for something similar to replace my 20 year old MX5 deathtrap, and E46 with a big engine is pretty much the only thing I can find that I could live with. Thing is for that money there are older cars I prefer, and for a bit less money there are older cars I prefer and can afford to run.
Basically I'm stuck in a time warp of 80's and 90's cars - this morning I was talking about selling the Elise for a really nice 635CSi FFS.
So in conclusion: Corrado. Or an ITR which I think looks much newer than a Corrado, but is in budget, won't break and won't lose much, if any, money.
TameRacingDriver said:
In what respect?
Similar pace, handles at least as well, fairly cheap to run and easily tolerable as a daily driver.
I grant you the VR6 engine is a peach, and the 'rado has that "dub scene" thing going on, but the clios are still fun cars. I've heard many say that the 197s are no more fun than the older cars.
Sometimes better the devil you know though, I agree.
Good points, on paper yes performance isn't that different, at above NSL speeds the VR6 will comfortably deal with any Clio Sport but at more reasonable speeds there is less of a difference mostly due to VR6 having long gear ratios compared with the clios short ones. Handling wise again I agree that there isn't night and day between them, both are very capable chassis that have been praised for having excellent handling.Similar pace, handles at least as well, fairly cheap to run and easily tolerable as a daily driver.
I grant you the VR6 engine is a peach, and the 'rado has that "dub scene" thing going on, but the clios are still fun cars. I've heard many say that the 197s are no more fun than the older cars.
Sometimes better the devil you know though, I agree.
Normally I am a avid fan of hot hatches and will defend them all day long from people who would argue till the end of time that a hot hatch is nothing more than a "white good" (I hate that phrase) with a better engine but on this occasion as the owner of a corrado G60 + VR6 and a french hot hatch (a xsara vts) and having used a 172 for a track day I'd rather stick with the corrado as it is a purpose built coupe which is hard to find these days.
I understand Carter's issue with the ride, 17s and 40 profile tyres and lowered suspension can be harsh (I have them on the VR6 but Koni dampeners make a huge difference.) On the other hand the G60 with 15 inch wheels and 195/50 is beautiful to drive, so composed yet when you start pushing on it feels more and more alive so maybe swapping to the original Solitudes or smaller wheels will help the ride and reduce the rattles!
I'm getting the impression that perhaps Carter is looking for more of a change for something perceived as more modern not because he is fed up of the corrado and I have to agree that a E46 BMW coupe is a smart choice ( as it happens the chap I got my corrado off had traded to a E46 330 cabriolet)
Of your other suggestions I'd be wary of the RX8, one of my colleagues forked out £2k on a starter motor and MOT on a 54 plate recently and then put the car up for sale and took £1900 for it. This prompted me to have a look at them and there are some astonishingly low mileage 53-55 plate cars which is either a big reliability concern or shows that they are often second cars.... Given the tendency for the engine to have issues I'd sooner rely on the VR6 engine and hope that it's chains last ( for the record my vr6 had 180k on it before chains were done!)
One final thought, I accept that if Carter's car still has it's original paint then it may be looking a little tired, in which case is it fair to assume that you don't have a dislike for the corrado more it's appearance. The sad fact is that even if you did have the car repainted I can tell you from bitter experience that a fresh paint job will only last a matter of days before some **** will scratch/ding/dent it especially if you park on streets and use the car daily. Perhaps simply spending a few quid having a dent specialist remove some dents and a pro give it a good clean will revive your enthusiasm for the car??
I think you're right kerrly I have been thinking about putting the original speed lines on and raising the ride height a little, this would make the car easier to live with day to day and it would be better to sell it like this as it would be almost original.
I do crave a modern car though and my plan has been to buy a mk5 golf Gti, a friend has got one and it's such a nice car. With a stage 1 remap its a little weapon and the build quality/stereo is superb, plus I like VWs.
What I don't like about the GTi is its another front wheel drive car and it would be nice to have rear wheel drive . Front wheel drive is faster for back road driving, I know this, but rearwheel drive would be more exciting to drift about big empty spaces etc.
An e39 M5 would be a treat but the insurance and running costs put me off massively which is why I was thinking of the 323ci as it still has a nice bit of power but is much cheaper to buy as it isn't a range topper and it's just a bit more disposable which I like. I don't like to be too precious about my cars as I see it as a weakness.
I do crave a modern car though and my plan has been to buy a mk5 golf Gti, a friend has got one and it's such a nice car. With a stage 1 remap its a little weapon and the build quality/stereo is superb, plus I like VWs.
What I don't like about the GTi is its another front wheel drive car and it would be nice to have rear wheel drive . Front wheel drive is faster for back road driving, I know this, but rearwheel drive would be more exciting to drift about big empty spaces etc.
An e39 M5 would be a treat but the insurance and running costs put me off massively which is why I was thinking of the 323ci as it still has a nice bit of power but is much cheaper to buy as it isn't a range topper and it's just a bit more disposable which I like. I don't like to be too precious about my cars as I see it as a weakness.
id say an e46 is a very good modern alternative to a vr6, you will definitely miss the engine note/character if you dont get a 6 cylinder.
i would avoid the rx8's simply because, when i had one, even if you do get a good one which i think mine was, there will always be that uneasy feeling that something quite big can go wrong relatively easily and there no preventative measure you can take to stop it really.
i went from an rx8 to a vr6 to a civic type r, the civic was very reliable, but felt to highly strung and hectic after the smoothness of the vr6.
i have a mk1 mx5 as a stopgap now, id love to capture a cheap modern vr6 alternative, so far, in order of likelihood (today!) for around £3-4k im looking at:
1)bmw 330- most desirable, a default choice, but possibly expensive to run.
2)is 300- most reliable but about 15% not as nice all round.
3)st220- nice engine, good allrounder, but not rwd, and not quite jap levels of reliability.
4)xtype 3.0- great value for money, but slight old man image, plus the 4wd and auto box can be slight reliability prob.
5) maz 6 mps - only 4 cylinder sound, most expensive, no hatch/estate, most powerful/remapable, hopefully jap reliability.
oh well, time for more procrastination about cars insead of work.lol
good luck!
i would avoid the rx8's simply because, when i had one, even if you do get a good one which i think mine was, there will always be that uneasy feeling that something quite big can go wrong relatively easily and there no preventative measure you can take to stop it really.
i went from an rx8 to a vr6 to a civic type r, the civic was very reliable, but felt to highly strung and hectic after the smoothness of the vr6.
i have a mk1 mx5 as a stopgap now, id love to capture a cheap modern vr6 alternative, so far, in order of likelihood (today!) for around £3-4k im looking at:
1)bmw 330- most desirable, a default choice, but possibly expensive to run.
2)is 300- most reliable but about 15% not as nice all round.
3)st220- nice engine, good allrounder, but not rwd, and not quite jap levels of reliability.
4)xtype 3.0- great value for money, but slight old man image, plus the 4wd and auto box can be slight reliability prob.
5) maz 6 mps - only 4 cylinder sound, most expensive, no hatch/estate, most powerful/remapable, hopefully jap reliability.
oh well, time for more procrastination about cars insead of work.lol
good luck!
carter711 said:
I think you're right kerrly I have been thinking about putting the original speed lines on and raising the ride height a little, this would make the car easier to live with day to day and it would be better to sell it like this as it would be almost original.
I do crave a modern car though and my plan has been to buy a mk5 golf Gti, a friend has got one and it's such a nice car. With a stage 1 remap its a little weapon and the build quality/stereo is superb, plus I like VWs.
What I don't like about the GTi is its another front wheel drive car and it would be nice to have rear wheel drive . Front wheel drive is faster for back road driving, I know this, but rearwheel drive would be more exciting to drift about big empty spaces etc.
An e39 M5 would be a treat but the insurance and running costs put me off massively which is why I was thinking of the 323ci as it still has a nice bit of power but is much cheaper to buy as it isn't a range topper and it's just a bit more disposable which I like. I don't like to be too precious about my cars as I see it as a weakness.
I'm in the process (well have actually already ditched the 17s) of changing my wheels and suspension to more standard items on my 172 because like you I'm getting too old for crashy suspension and the like - lets face it, big wheels and low hard suspension are about as suitable for british roads as using a speed boat for a round the world cruise!I do crave a modern car though and my plan has been to buy a mk5 golf Gti, a friend has got one and it's such a nice car. With a stage 1 remap its a little weapon and the build quality/stereo is superb, plus I like VWs.
What I don't like about the GTi is its another front wheel drive car and it would be nice to have rear wheel drive . Front wheel drive is faster for back road driving, I know this, but rearwheel drive would be more exciting to drift about big empty spaces etc.
An e39 M5 would be a treat but the insurance and running costs put me off massively which is why I was thinking of the 323ci as it still has a nice bit of power but is much cheaper to buy as it isn't a range topper and it's just a bit more disposable which I like. I don't like to be too precious about my cars as I see it as a weakness.
The only reason I suggested the 172 is its a bit more modern. I love my Phase 1. Its got an excellent blend of retro and modern going on in one car. But ultimately, its a side step at best - but it is a change, but I think, as I'm sure you've already sussed, that RWD probably the way to go for a proper change (I'm actually enjoying FWD as a change because all but 1 of my last 5 cars has been RWD!).
E36 BMW might fit the bill, a 328 or something? Straight 6 engine, RWD handling, and mine was very refined.
carter711 said:
I think you're right kerrly I have been thinking about putting the original speed lines on and raising the ride height a little, this would make the car easier to live with day to day and it would be better to sell it like this as it would be almost original.
I do crave a modern car though and my plan has been to buy a mk5 golf Gti, a friend has got one and it's such a nice car. With a stage 1 remap its a little weapon and the build quality/stereo is superb, plus I like VWs.
What I don't like about the GTi is its another front wheel drive car and it would be nice to have rear wheel drive . Front wheel drive is faster for back road driving, I know this, but rearwheel drive would be more exciting to drift about big empty spaces etc.
An e39 M5 would be a treat but the insurance and running costs put me off massively which is why I was thinking of the 323ci as it still has a nice bit of power but is much cheaper to buy as it isn't a range topper and it's just a bit more disposable which I like. I don't like to be too precious about my cars as I see it as a weakness.
It has to be said we appear very a like. I do crave a modern car though and my plan has been to buy a mk5 golf Gti, a friend has got one and it's such a nice car. With a stage 1 remap its a little weapon and the build quality/stereo is superb, plus I like VWs.
What I don't like about the GTi is its another front wheel drive car and it would be nice to have rear wheel drive . Front wheel drive is faster for back road driving, I know this, but rearwheel drive would be more exciting to drift about big empty spaces etc.
An e39 M5 would be a treat but the insurance and running costs put me off massively which is why I was thinking of the 323ci as it still has a nice bit of power but is much cheaper to buy as it isn't a range topper and it's just a bit more disposable which I like. I don't like to be too precious about my cars as I see it as a weakness.
I completely understand the desire for a more modern car with a few more creature comforts and hopefully almost certain reliability but without going too far from what makes the Corrado a great car to own. The mk5 golf is very much on my list of potential new cars (once the xsara dies) as it does ticks a lot of boxes in terms of being a fantastic all rounder.
Also like yourself I am lured towards BMWs (I had a E30 318i prior to my mk2 golf GTIs) and have been considering a 325i compact or touring ( I enjoy mountain biking and a E36/46 coupe boot will not fit 2x DH bikes in)
Other alternatives which maybe worth considering are the Lexus IS200 sport, at the higher end of your budget a Audi S4
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