Gearbox change!
Discussion
Mr Tank said:
Hi
I have the opportunity to get a 2+2 but it needs a Gearbox. I know you can't easily do a gerabox change on a V8 without taking the engine out. But what about a V6, can that be done with out removing the engine?
Andy
What the big fuss about having to take the engine and gearbox out, I've done an engine and Gearbox swap in a day. you welcome to borrow my engine craneI have the opportunity to get a 2+2 but it needs a Gearbox. I know you can't easily do a gerabox change on a V8 without taking the engine out. But what about a V6, can that be done with out removing the engine?
Andy
Leigh
Yes a engine out is not a problem, normaly I would do that but if a gearbox swap is quicker then we would do that.
Mainly the aim is to get the car back on the road quickly. The car would be in line for a full refub at a later date, thus a quick turn around now is what we need to do!
Andy
Yes a engine out is not a problem, normaly I would do that but if a gearbox swap is quicker then we would do that.
Mainly the aim is to get the car back on the road quickly. The car would be in line for a full refub at a later date, thus a quick turn around now is what we need to do!
Andy
Andy,
From experience on the earlier, narrow (Pre RV8) chassis, yes the box can be changed without disturbing the engine, it's a bit of a 'faf', as you have to split the bell from the box, but far quicker than engine out.
Prop off, gear lever off, clutch cable, speedometer drive and reverse switch connections off (on my car exhaust off).
Now, depending if it's a four speed or five speed...
If its a four speed, bell housing and box back, box to bell bolts out there external, box back a good distance then drop the bell down and out, failing hazy memory tells me you can just get the box out without taking the flywheel/clutch off (but thats only 12 bolts total), reassembly is the reverse.
If its a five speed the bell to box bolts are inside the bell housing (M12 x 1.75, 19mm hex head), gearbox back as far as possible, the you can 'just' get a fat arm in there to remove the bolts, then its the same as above.
Either case (done both, last one Sunday just gone, but then I had the clutch, flywheel and sump off for an annoying oil leak from the back of the sump gasket) It's not a difficult or time consuming job, the five speed is a little more time consuming due to the bell to box bolts being inside the bell, but for box only I would say 4 - 5 hours working on axle stands.
If I can help any further, just ask.
Chris.
From experience on the earlier, narrow (Pre RV8) chassis, yes the box can be changed without disturbing the engine, it's a bit of a 'faf', as you have to split the bell from the box, but far quicker than engine out.
Prop off, gear lever off, clutch cable, speedometer drive and reverse switch connections off (on my car exhaust off).
Now, depending if it's a four speed or five speed...
If its a four speed, bell housing and box back, box to bell bolts out there external, box back a good distance then drop the bell down and out, failing hazy memory tells me you can just get the box out without taking the flywheel/clutch off (but thats only 12 bolts total), reassembly is the reverse.
If its a five speed the bell to box bolts are inside the bell housing (M12 x 1.75, 19mm hex head), gearbox back as far as possible, the you can 'just' get a fat arm in there to remove the bolts, then its the same as above.
Either case (done both, last one Sunday just gone, but then I had the clutch, flywheel and sump off for an annoying oil leak from the back of the sump gasket) It's not a difficult or time consuming job, the five speed is a little more time consuming due to the bell to box bolts being inside the bell, but for box only I would say 4 - 5 hours working on axle stands.
If I can help any further, just ask.
Chris.
Mr Tank said:
Mark
Have you done it you self!
Sorry I know what some books say, I want to know from sombody who has done it not read in a book!
Hi Andy..No i havent done it myself and i didnt consult a book but when i was contemplating having a ring gear changed and a clutch fitted me and the guy from the ford garage had a really good look..He said it wasnt that different from a capri..He has done loads in 30 years..Just trying to help...ZigaHave you done it you self!
Sorry I know what some books say, I want to know from sombody who has done it not read in a book!
Tasmin200 said:
That's good information Chris. It looked possible when scrabbling around underneath but it's good to have it confirmed. My car is currently a 4 speeder but I've got a 2.8i 5 speeder to go in it, do you have any tips for that job?
If your car is a 4 cylinder then a V6 5 speed wont fit as the input shaft is longer on the V6.The speedo output locking nut? on the V6 gearbox is different from the V6 4 speed. It can be cable tied in place though.
MJG280 said:
Tasmin200 said:
That's good information Chris. It looked possible when scrabbling around underneath but it's good to have it confirmed. My car is currently a 4 speeder but I've got a 2.8i 5 speeder to go in it, do you have any tips for that job?
If your car is a 4 cylinder then a V6 5 speed wont fit as the input shaft is longer on the V6.The speedo output locking nut? on the V6 gearbox is different from the V6 4 speed. It can be cable tied in place though.
The spigot bearing in the end of the crankshaft will likely require changing (1/2" for the 4 speed and 15mm for the 5 speed).
The propshaft can be retained but it won't enter into the 5 speed box quite as far (appx 10mm).
The speedometer will read ~20% low and RPM in top gear at comparable speeds will drop by ~20% with the 5 speed box and Std 3.07 ratio 4 speed diff. But should you choose to fit a 3.54 diff as per the 5 speed cars all will be restored.
You will have to do a cut and shut on the gearlever to ensure it enters the car in the correct position IIRC its about 50mm, I would recommend to fit a quickshift kit there cheap as chips and do reduce the stroke nicely.
The original clutch can be reused.
Std. clutch cable (if you have a cable clutch) can be reused.
The 5 speed box is not as strong as the 4 speed and does not take kindly to incorrect lube type, from memory it uses a 75/90 semi synthetic.
All the above is for 2.8 4 speed to 2.8 5 speed, but I think it will be very similar if not the same for the Pinto engine (assumption, the Mother of a F' ups!).
Chris.
mrzigazaga said:
Hi Andy..No i havent done it myself and i didnt consult a book but when i was contemplating having a ring gear changed and a clutch fitted me and the guy from the ford garage had a really good look..He said it wasnt that different from a capri..He has done loads in 30 years..Just trying to help...Ziga
I know you were Mark. I also know you had not done they job your self, and I needed a hands on person who had!
Andy
Hi
The car was owned by Andy (Mr Sheen) and he got it into a reasnoable condition, i.e New Outrigers, re-trim etc in 2008
Here a poor pic in the back ground is the car!
He then Sold it as you do at times!
The car was then seen by me in early last year with four flat tyres, a smashed front bumper, flat paint work and had a f_ _ _ed gearbox (Only has 2 & 4th gears)
The woman who purchased it, had an accident plus did the gearbox and it has been left outside for two to three years!
She has now contacted him/us wanting to sell it!
I am interested but also have a lot of other cars inline so I will see!
Also Rose will kill me if I get another wreck, but what will I do with my time once I am walking again?
Andy
The car was owned by Andy (Mr Sheen) and he got it into a reasnoable condition, i.e New Outrigers, re-trim etc in 2008
Here a poor pic in the back ground is the car!
He then Sold it as you do at times!
The car was then seen by me in early last year with four flat tyres, a smashed front bumper, flat paint work and had a f_ _ _ed gearbox (Only has 2 & 4th gears)
The woman who purchased it, had an accident plus did the gearbox and it has been left outside for two to three years!
She has now contacted him/us wanting to sell it!
I am interested but also have a lot of other cars inline so I will see!
Also Rose will kill me if I get another wreck, but what will I do with my time once I am walking again?
Andy
Edited by Mr Tank on Wednesday 20th June 01:22
My experience of interchangeing 4 and 5 speeders, 4 and 6 cyl in kit cars (but not actually in a wedge)
The 5 speed boxes are all essentially the same, BUT
1. They have a 4 cyl and a 6 cyl version of the bellhousing and input shaft.
2. There are 2 common gearsets 2.0/2.3, and 2.8
If you get a 4 cyl box, it can be rebuilt as a 6 cyl if you use 6 cyl 5 speed or early 2.3 Cortina 4 speed bellhousing and a 2.3 Sierra input shaft. YES - I've actually done this.
The 5 speeder is a little longer than the 4 speeder, and the gearstick sits in a slightly different place (about 1 inch further back ?). The 5 speeder mounts are further back. A 5 speed will probably physically fit in, but not sure if it will fit on the Wedge 4 speed mounts, and the propshaft will probably need shortening by about 2 inches.
The 5 speed boxes are all essentially the same, BUT
1. They have a 4 cyl and a 6 cyl version of the bellhousing and input shaft.
2. There are 2 common gearsets 2.0/2.3, and 2.8
If you get a 4 cyl box, it can be rebuilt as a 6 cyl if you use 6 cyl 5 speed or early 2.3 Cortina 4 speed bellhousing and a 2.3 Sierra input shaft. YES - I've actually done this.
The 5 speeder is a little longer than the 4 speeder, and the gearstick sits in a slightly different place (about 1 inch further back ?). The 5 speeder mounts are further back. A 5 speed will probably physically fit in, but not sure if it will fit on the Wedge 4 speed mounts, and the propshaft will probably need shortening by about 2 inches.
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