Pivotal cars?

[white_goodman]

I'm not talking about bendy buses or anything like that but which cars have done most to change your perception of the brand for better or worse? For example, I would regard the XF as the first modern Jaguar but can't decide whether that is a good or a bad thing. Granted, the new S-Type was a bad pastiche of a 1960s mkII Jag but I am a fan of the classic XJ lines and other classic Jags. Here are some that I think.

For worse:

Audi (mk2 A3 - not a bad car really and great business for Audi but this was probably the point where Audi stopped being the cool, alternative choice for me).

Citroen (Xsara - again not a bad car in isolation but dull as ditchwater, no innovation or quirkiness and the start of Citroen's pile 'em high and sell them cheap phase)

Honda (new Civic - an uglier version of the old one and no Type-R version)

Mercedes-Benz (original A-Class - the start of Mercedes drop in quality? I'm sure they have improved again now but I'm not sure at which point.)

Peugeot (307 - the point at which they stopped making pretty, good handling hatches and started making ugly matresses)

Saab (GM 900 - a more expensive, re-bodied Cavalier/Vectra)

For better:

Citroen (DS3 - like it or not but Citroen moving upmarket and getting interesting again)

Ford (mk1 Mondeo in terms of making good to drive non-sporting cars and original Ka in terms of more interesting styling)

Kia (Ce'ed - an affordable, credible alternative)

Land Rover (Discovery 1 - Land Rover became a mainstream choice)

Mazda (original MX5 - first interesting Mazda - RX7 a bit too specialised)

Peugeot (205 - the beginning of Peugeot's glory years?)

Seat (mk1 Leon - a decent, prettier alternative to an Astra/Golf)

Skoda (Octavia - first modern Skoda?)

Suzuki (new Swift - a good small car with mainstream appeal)

VW (mk1 Golf - first modern VW?)

Volvo (850 - a desirable, good to drive Volvo)

I know that this is subjective but which cars do you think were pivotal in your perception of a particular brand? You may agree, you may disagree with my thoughts. Can you think of any others?

[Raize]

Vauxhall Cavalier (particularly second gen) for me marks the beginning of the decline of the brand from "decent" to "horrible".

[kambites]

I think Skoda is too hard to quantify - the Favorit was their first FF car; the Felicia was the car with major VAG design input; the Octavia was the first car actually based on a VAG platform. It was a fairly gradual transition really.

[white_goodman]

Raize said:

Vauxhall Cavalier (particularly second gen) for me marks the beginning of the decline of the brand from "decent" to "horrible".

Yes Vauxhalls are pretty horrible now but I wasn't exactly sure when the decline started. I'm surprised you think that early. I might have said mk1 Vectra (although I haven't driven one). My first car was a mk3 Astra which was alright for what it was!

[white_goodman]

kambites said:

I think Skoda is too hard to quantify - the Favorit was their first FF car; the Felicia was the car with major VAG design input; the Octavia was the first car actually based on a VAG platform. It was a fairly gradual transition really.

True the Favorit/Felicia were decent enough cars. Perhaps modern was a bad word to use. IMHO, the Octavia was the first Skoda that people took seriously!

[Matthen]

Fiat Multipla... MK1 - interesting styling, I rather liked it
MK2 on the other hand, looked more miserable than a wet Tuesday.

[Fittster]

white_goodman said:

Volvo (850 - a desirable, good to drive Volvo)

Amazon and P1800 weren't desirable?

[white_goodman]

Fittster said:

Amazon and P1800 weren't desirable?

Yes they were. Brand perception can fluctuate though. I wasn't alive when they were new and to me growing up, Volvos were always boxy, safe and dull. The 850, particularly the T5 with its Touring Car associations changed all that and got them to where they are today!