What loss in value after a £20k accident ...??
Discussion
I have a question regarding peoples attitudes to buying desirable cars … that have had accident damage as outlined below. Please excuse the alter-ego posting … ;-)
THE CAR :- £110k+ new sports car, prestigious European marque, 3 months old. 2k miles on it. Was in stunning condition.
THE PROBLEM :- Car suffered accident damage totaling £20k that was not the sellers fault, with the 3rd party admitting full liability.
The car was repaired perfectly by the manufacturers approved agent. No structural damage but lots of expensive bodywork. All parties somehow worked to ensure it didn't end up on HPI and it was not deemed Cat D, or anything else.
When selling a car the seller must answer truthfully if asked about accident damage, else face possible claims for negligence for failing to disclose significant facts which may affect a buyers decision, especially on a high value car.
I would have thought most potential buyers, if told that there had been £20k accident that doesn't show up on HPI, are going to either walk away, or offer significantly less than the market rate for an undamaged identical car, or prefer to pay more for a an identical car with no such history.
I also suspect most reputable dealers would avoid handling such a vehicle offered in P/EX knowing the headaches involved.
THE BIG QUESTION :- … what percentage loss in value do you think the car has suffered, even though its been perfectly repaired ? Would you still consider it, or just walk away ?
THE CAR :- £110k+ new sports car, prestigious European marque, 3 months old. 2k miles on it. Was in stunning condition.
THE PROBLEM :- Car suffered accident damage totaling £20k that was not the sellers fault, with the 3rd party admitting full liability.
The car was repaired perfectly by the manufacturers approved agent. No structural damage but lots of expensive bodywork. All parties somehow worked to ensure it didn't end up on HPI and it was not deemed Cat D, or anything else.
When selling a car the seller must answer truthfully if asked about accident damage, else face possible claims for negligence for failing to disclose significant facts which may affect a buyers decision, especially on a high value car.
I would have thought most potential buyers, if told that there had been £20k accident that doesn't show up on HPI, are going to either walk away, or offer significantly less than the market rate for an undamaged identical car, or prefer to pay more for a an identical car with no such history.
I also suspect most reputable dealers would avoid handling such a vehicle offered in P/EX knowing the headaches involved.
THE BIG QUESTION :- … what percentage loss in value do you think the car has suffered, even though its been perfectly repaired ? Would you still consider it, or just walk away ?
Lots of cars (most cars?) will have some sort of incident in their lives and require repair work, usually under insurance.
The car is repaired back to the correct standard and the future owners are none the wiser, and the car is valued the same as pre-repair.
There is no difference between at £20k repair on a £100k car and a £2k repair on a £10k car in the eyes of the insurance co'.
And there is no obligation on anyone to mention the repairs.
The car is repaired back to the correct standard and the future owners are none the wiser, and the car is valued the same as pre-repair.
There is no difference between at £20k repair on a £100k car and a £2k repair on a £10k car in the eyes of the insurance co'.
And there is no obligation on anyone to mention the repairs.
Turin said:
I have a question regarding peoples attitudes to buying desirable cars … that have had accident damage as outlined below. Please excuse the alter-ego posting … ;-)
THE CAR :- £110k+ new sports car, prestigious European marque, 3 months old. 2k miles on it. Was in stunning condition.
THE PROBLEM :- Car suffered accident damage totaling £20k that was not the sellers fault, with the 3rd party admitting full liability.
The car was repaired perfectly by the manufacturers approved agent. No structural damage but lots of expensive bodywork. All parties somehow worked to ensure it didn't end up on HPI and it was not deemed Cat D, or anything else.
When selling a car the seller must answer truthfully if asked about accident damage, else face possible claims for negligence for failing to disclose significant facts which may affect a buyers decision, especially on a high value car.
I would have thought most potential buyers, if told that there had been £20k accident that doesn't show up on HPI, are going to either walk away, or offer significantly less than the market rate for an undamaged identical car, or prefer to pay more for a an identical car with no such history.
I also suspect most reputable dealers would avoid handling such a vehicle offered in P/EX knowing the headaches involved.
THE BIG QUESTION :- … what percentage loss in value do you think the car has suffered, even though its been perfectly repaired ? Would you still consider it, or just walk away ?
If asked then have to be honest with buyer etc but if not asked then it's not an issue.THE CAR :- £110k+ new sports car, prestigious European marque, 3 months old. 2k miles on it. Was in stunning condition.
THE PROBLEM :- Car suffered accident damage totaling £20k that was not the sellers fault, with the 3rd party admitting full liability.
The car was repaired perfectly by the manufacturers approved agent. No structural damage but lots of expensive bodywork. All parties somehow worked to ensure it didn't end up on HPI and it was not deemed Cat D, or anything else.
When selling a car the seller must answer truthfully if asked about accident damage, else face possible claims for negligence for failing to disclose significant facts which may affect a buyers decision, especially on a high value car.
I would have thought most potential buyers, if told that there had been £20k accident that doesn't show up on HPI, are going to either walk away, or offer significantly less than the market rate for an undamaged identical car, or prefer to pay more for a an identical car with no such history.
I also suspect most reputable dealers would avoid handling such a vehicle offered in P/EX knowing the headaches involved.
THE BIG QUESTION :- … what percentage loss in value do you think the car has suffered, even though its been perfectly repaired ? Would you still consider it, or just walk away ?
If it's given back to you after the repair (you are the owner) you can seek a diminution claim to claim back the loss of value etc.
Jasandjules said:
If someone asks if the vehicle has been in an accident there is.
If its a private sale its down to the buyer to check, not for the owner to tell all. If its a garage sale and they know its been repaired they should declare if asked - if the prev' owner does not tell them how would they know? rallycross said:
If its a private sale its down to the buyer to check, not for the owner to tell all. If its a garage sale and they know its been repaired they should declare if asked - if the prev' owner does not tell them how would they know?
I seem to remember being here before, but the law regarding misinterpretation applies to private sellers as well - if the buyer asks if the car has sustained accident damage the seller must be truthful otherwise he is misrepresenting the car. How easily this is to enforce is a separate argument.Edited by tim0409 on Friday 22 June 14:28
It's a high value, nearly new car. If you intend selling I'd say most potential buyers would closely inspect the car.
Most repairs can be spotted if you look hard enough.
Doesn't matter so much on the mainstream stuff, most cars will have repairs at some stage.
Try getting a trade-in price from the dealer who knows the cars history already. I'll bet it is somewhat reduced from a non-repaired example.
Most repairs can be spotted if you look hard enough.
Doesn't matter so much on the mainstream stuff, most cars will have repairs at some stage.
Try getting a trade-in price from the dealer who knows the cars history already. I'll bet it is somewhat reduced from a non-repaired example.
i would want to see pics of the various stages of repairs and the body shop would have to be able to do work to concourse standard
otherwise i would walk away, i hate dodgy paint work, it bugs the hell out of me, i would rather have a small mark than paint a panel
i sold a red car before because after a repair the panel was a different colour under street lights
otherwise i would walk away, i hate dodgy paint work, it bugs the hell out of me, i would rather have a small mark than paint a panel
i sold a red car before because after a repair the panel was a different colour under street lights
So what you're saying is, you want to treat the car as a Cat D write off even though it hasn't been?
Being a top end car, or any other for that matter, the insurance would have ensured they used a repairer competent enough to complete the work to a high standard.
The owner would have inspected the work and, presumably, signed off the repair saying he/she was happy with the standard.
I would say the majority of cars on the road have been in some sort of bump in their time so really we need another line in any guide - 'been repaired/non write off'.
Let's add more complications to buying cars.
Being a top end car, or any other for that matter, the insurance would have ensured they used a repairer competent enough to complete the work to a high standard.
The owner would have inspected the work and, presumably, signed off the repair saying he/she was happy with the standard.
I would say the majority of cars on the road have been in some sort of bump in their time so really we need another line in any guide - 'been repaired/non write off'.
Let's add more complications to buying cars.
falkster said:
Being a top end car, or any other for that matter, the insurance would have ensured they used a repairer competent enough to complete the work to a high standard.
They all work to a time limit/ budget. The majority of repairs are barely acceptable imo. A quick turnaround is the priority.
I have seen some decent work performed by bodyshops but sadly it is few and far between.
rallycross said:
Lots of cars (most cars?) will have some sort of incident in their lives and require repair work, usually under insurance.
The car is repaired back to the correct standard and the future owners are none the wiser, and the car is valued the same as pre-repair.
There is no difference between at £20k repair on a £100k car and a £2k repair on a £10k car in the eyes of the insurance co'.
And there is no obligation on anyone to mention the repairs.
All of this. The car is repaired back to the correct standard and the future owners are none the wiser, and the car is valued the same as pre-repair.
There is no difference between at £20k repair on a £100k car and a £2k repair on a £10k car in the eyes of the insurance co'.
And there is no obligation on anyone to mention the repairs.
If the work is good enough not to be noticeable I probably wouldn't mention it to be honest.
Red 4 said:
Have you seen the standard of repairs completed by insurance approved bodyshops ?
They all work to a time limit/ budget. The majority of repairs are barely acceptable imo. A quick turnaround is the priority.
I have seen some decent work performed by bodyshops but sadly it is few and far between.
Then the work doesn't get accepted or it goes to my choice in the first place. They all work to a time limit/ budget. The majority of repairs are barely acceptable imo. A quick turnaround is the priority.
I have seen some decent work performed by bodyshops but sadly it is few and far between.
I'm lucky enough to only have experienced this once and the car was finished 'ok' but the paintwork wasnt upto my standard. The guy took my round the brand new cars telling me 'these have orange peel too'. After the 4th attempt I took it to a painter that I've used for a few years before then took it back to them perfect.
It's not about accepting substandard work and then saying 'yeah mate it's been crashed, look the repair is rubbish - you can have ten grand off the price'.
What a really bizarre way of thinking about things!
It's simple, people have accidents, if the car can't be repaired it gets categorised depending on the damage which affects its resale value (even then cat D can be as simple as a graize across multiple panels) but if it's minor enough to be repaired, to a standard that you can't tell, then it's back to normal and no adjustment in price.
When I sold my SLK 55 privately, I told the guy the only damage it had suffered was a crack in the lip of the front spoiler. This was done by my wife parking too close to a high kerb and I replaced it with a brand new spoiler (€1,000
).
Buyer organised a mobile inspection on the day and the guy was very thorough. He tested the paint on the front of the car and the thickness did not match the manufactures figures so recorded it as having frontal damage in the past. Now if I had not informed the buyer of the previous incident the likelihood is he would of walked away no matter how much explaining I tried to do.
). Buyer organised a mobile inspection on the day and the guy was very thorough. He tested the paint on the front of the car and the thickness did not match the manufactures figures so recorded it as having frontal damage in the past. Now if I had not informed the buyer of the previous incident the likelihood is he would of walked away no matter how much explaining I tried to do.
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