Engine/gearbox mounts....

[General Madness]

I have a clio 172, Occasionally when pulling away in a brisk but mechanically sympathetic fashion I hear a knock of some sort from the passenger side of the car. This appears to be coming from the footwell to engine compartment area.

I have heard that these cars are hard on the engine/box mounts and I believe a "dogbone" mount???

Anyway, Can people please advise me how I could go about checking these mounts for any excessive play/movement?

Cheers in advance.

[Captain Muppet]

General Madness said:

Can people please advise me how I could go about checking these mounts for any excessive play/movement?

Open bonnet, push on engine.

Best done with the engine cold so you don't burn yourself.

[nsa]

If you need an uprated mount:

http://www.vibra-technics.co.uk/renault/clio_2_172...

No connection, but I've used their mounts for another car.

[General Madness]

Captain Muppet said:

Open bonnet, push on engine.

Best done with the engine cold so you don't burn yourself.

how do I determine the rating of "play" in the engine mounts? What exactly is "excessive" ?

[General Madness]

nsa said:

If you need an uprated mount:

http://www.vibra-technics.co.uk/renault/clio_2_172...

No connection, but I've used their mounts for another car.

thank you, I will keep this in mind.

[ohtari]

General Madness said:

how do I determine the rating of "play" in the engine mounts? What exactly is "excessive" ?

The force pushing back on the engine under acceleration isn't that great, if you can push the engine till it hits the firewall, then the mount's shot.

[Mr2Mike]

ohtari said:

The force pushing back on the engine under acceleration isn't that great, if you can push the engine till it hits the firewall, then the mount's shot.

The force trying to rotate the engine and transmission is exactly the same as the force turning the wheels i.e. very high in low gears.

[matthias73]

Captain Muppet said:

General Madness said:

Can people please advise me how I could go about checking these mounts for any excessive play/movement?

Open bonnet, push on engine.

Best done with the engine cold so you don't burn yourself.

Reminds me of the time I had to change the tyre on my mountain bike after a twenty minute downhill, I grabbed hold of the brake disc whilst trying to wiggle the wheel free...

So yeah, dont drive the car first.

[Captain Muppet]

General Madness said:

Captain Muppet said:

Open bonnet, push on engine.

Best done with the engine cold so you don't burn yourself.

how do I determine the rating of "play" in the engine mounts? What exactly is "excessive" ?

Sorry, I missed a step: Open bonnet, push on engine, listen for the knocking noise you are investigating.

In a front engined transverse installation you can often see the bushes that move when you move the engine. There will be one high up on the end of the engine, one at the end of the gearbox and then one (or maybe two) somewhere in the middle that stop the engine rotating on the first two*. The mounts which stop it rotating are the ones most likely to make a noise when pulling away. Inspect those, push on them, pull on them, see if they clonk. Or take them off and look for damage - they shouldn't be taking much static load, and should only be a couple of bolts to remove (hence the "dogbone" shape that many of them have). You may need to get under the car to find them.

I've not looked under the bonnet of a clio, so that's about as much help as I can be.

"Excessive" play is enough play to let something hit something else making the "clonk" noise you keep hearing. It'll be caused by the rubber bushes falling to bits (or leaking fluid if they are hydromounts) or by the bolts being loose. As a general rule if your engine can move in an inch in any direction it's not very well restrained, either because the mounts are knackered or because the design is terrible.

* Obviously on longitudinal mounted installations the engine sits on top of a mount each side, with another mount on the gearbox (unless it's an MX5/RX7/front-engined Porsche/Alfa75/something with a torque tube and uses some kind of frame to link it to the diff). In which case pushing the engine around can be quite tricky.

[Krikkit]

If in doubt, replace - they're pretty inexpensive and can make a big difference. I'd only go for Vibratechnics/polybush ones if you don't mind increased vibration into the cabin. The drive is improved, but comfort suffers.

[General Madness]

A bit of an update,

The knocking appears to happen once I have reversed then pulled away in first.

It Is a singular knock which would appear to be coming from the passenger side but It sounds like it may be closer to the centre of the car.

Any other suggestions based on that info?

[joe_90]

As soon as I saw the title I knew it was a Clio, change the dog one mount.

[LordHaveMurci]

Dogbone mounts are common fault on 172s, most (me included) replace them with polybush.

[joe_90]

LordHaveMurci said:

Dogbone mounts are common fault on 172s, most (me included) replace them with polybush.

They give a bit more vibration, but worth is.
Also one of the best (or 2) upgrades you can do is:

Pure motorsport solid top mounts + bar .. http://www.pure-motorsport.co.uk/details.php?itemi...
and
whiteline rear anti roll bar.

These make an epic car.

[General Madness]

so say I wanted to replace all engine and box mounts in one go, Where should I source them and how do I go about fitting???

I have tools and am capable of turning spanners.

Also, solid top mounts. Would this still be recomennded for a road car?

[Captain Muppet]

General Madness said:

A bit of an update,

The knocking appears to happen once I have reversed then pulled away in first.

It Is a singular knock which would appear to be coming from the passenger side but It sounds like it may be closer to the centre of the car.

Any other suggestions based on that info?

Have you looked at the engine mounts yet?

[joe_90]

General Madness said:

so say I wanted to replace all engine and box mounts in one go, Where should I source them and how do I go about fitting???

I have tools and am capable of turning spanners.

Also, solid top mounts. Would this still be recomennded for a road car?

Bottom dogbone = easy
Engine mount = very easy
Gearbox mount = a bit of messing, but no biggy

I used and uprated dogbone, and had solid top mounts/bar (as in suspension) with the bar, and it was epic, no difference in driving to be honest, just handled so so well. These eat engine mounts left and right, if you put an uprated dogbone, then all the movement gets transferred to the other crap mounts.

The knocking will be mounts/top mounts on the struts.
Solid engine mounts (as in top/gb) will make a very noisy car.

These cars are nice to work on actually, things are a bit tight sometimes, but easy to do.

Also put the correct tyres on these.

[General Madness]

Captain Muppet said:

Have you looked at the engine mounts yet?

I can only see one of the mounts. I have tried shaking the engine back and forth and there is not a great deal of movement, also did not notice the knock.

[General Madness]

joe_90 said:

General Madness said:

so say I wanted to replace all engine and box mounts in one go, Where should I source them and how do I go about fitting???

I have tools and am capable of turning spanners.

Also, solid top mounts. Would this still be recomennded for a road car?

Bottom dogbone = easy
Engine mount = very easy
Gearbox mount = a bit of messing, but no biggy

I used and uprated dogbone, and had solid top mounts/bar (as in suspension) with the bar, and it was epic, no difference in driving to be honest, just handled so so well. These eat engine mounts left and right, if you put an uprated dogbone, then all the movement gets transferred to the other crap mounts.

The knocking will be mounts/top mounts on the struts.
Solid engine mounts (as in top/gb) will make a very noisy car.

These cars are nice to work on actually, things are a bit tight sometimes, but easy to do.

Also put the correct tyres on these.

As this is my DD I do not want it to be noisey. Are there upgraded mounts available which are not solid but more firm?

[rhinochopig]

A word of caution fitting engine and box bushes with a higher shore rating. They *can* transfer a hell of a lot more vibration to the car and some cars (of the same model) can suffer more.

When looking at uprated mounts I would look at companies based in Aus - like superpro - as they have been in the game a lot longer and have developed the recipes and designs more.

Also some companies offer a road and track version with different shore ratings (how hard/stiff the poly compound is). In a road car you really want the lower shore rating or you can and do get vibes through the steering wheel, and increased cabin noise. You also need to consider that stiffening one side of a mount up place loads on it that it was never designed for so you really ought to replace them as sets, i.e. all engine and box mounts together; don't just do the ones you can get at easily.