What car? 3 - 4.5k A lurker seeks inspiration

[JamesL]

Good morning everyone,

After many years of lurking I've decided to break the habbit with a perennial favourite, the What Car? thread.

Currently own a mondeo ST220 and whilst it's fast, dependable and well specced I find myself lacking any passion for it. So I'm giving consideration to changing it for something with a bit more character.

I have no kids or the need for anything too practical, but would prefer to have 4 seats for days out with mates/family. Would like similar running costs to the mondeo and similar or better performance and reliabilty. Also I would like a nice example of whatever I go for so my budget must fall into the mid/upper range of the market.

Early considerations are another 328 sport or an EP3 civic type R, what else have I overlooked?

[Krikkit]

E36 M3? Bit of a chav image, but wicked performance and a cracking engine.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3460521.htm

[JamesL]

I did think about an E36 M3, but all the cars in budget seem to have rusty arches and massive mileage. The nice ones are still fetching nearly 6k.

[Schuey M]

Focus rs mk1, audi s3, integra typre r, vw r32, bmw m3, all great cars

[300bhp/ton]

JamesL said:

Good morning everyone,

After many years of lurking I've decided to break the habbit with a perennial favourite, the What Car? thread.

Currently own a mondeo ST220 and whilst it's fast, dependable and well specced I find myself lacking any passion for it. So I'm giving consideration to changing it for something with a bit more character.

I have no kids or the need for anything too practical, but would prefer to have 4 seats for days out with mates/family. Would like similar running costs to the mondeo and similar or better performance and reliabilty. Also I would like a nice example of whatever I go for so my budget must fall into the mid/upper range of the market.

Early considerations are another 328 sport or an EP3 civic type R, what else have I overlooked?

Hi James. What sort of mpg/running costs are you getting now out of your ST220?

The 328i does seem obvious, although I'm not sure quite how much character they actually have. RWD, nice chassis and a six pot I concur. But truly character and passion I'm not so sure about. For your budget you could be looking at a minter of an e36 or a tidy e46 and even 330i's. Although I believe BMW changed the steering on the 330 and many claim it not as good to drive as the early 328 e46.

The CTR certainly is a benchmark hatch. Not one I'm personally found of, but that's more down to it's van like MPV looks really. But it is a car I can respect.

On the Honda theme I think I'd actually look at a mint Accord Type R rather than the Civic. And if you are wanting more sporty and happy to live with a 2+2, then you could also consider something like a DC2 Integra Type R. Truly a very special car and full of character.

Jaguar X-Type's would be in budget now. Personally I think they are a much nicer place to sit than a BMW. The 3.0 offers good performance too, plus you've got AWD.

Audi S4 B5, probably going to be heavier on fuel than your ST220, but it's in the next performance league up really. Also very tunable if you want to remap it.

If you want a bit more luxury and cosseting you could also look at a Jaguar S-Type or even an XJ. The V8's will be heavier on fuel than your Mondeo, although if you aren't doing a huge annual mileage it might not matter much. But they will be far more sumptuous. The S-Type can be had with a manual V6 also, which offers similar performance/running costs to your ST220, but in a nice RWD luxury package.


There really are lot of other options out there, depending on how fast, how old, how left field you might be prepared to go. Impreza turbo's, Legacy's, Evo's, a Volvo or two, Mazda 6 MPS. And a host of 2+2 coupes too.

[e21Mark]

Either a Type R or, my own preference as I prefer RWD, an e36 M3.

How about this?

http://www.bmwe21.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&...

[LuS1fer]

Character can depend on what the owner wants or expects. We had a CTR EP3 and liked the car a lot but I wouldn't say it had character, more a fun appliance...though it was being compared to American V8 muscle cars.

[JamesL]

Thanks for in depth reply 300bhp/ton, you've given me a lot to think about.

I'm getting high 20's mpg from the mondeo and in the year I've had it for it's needed 4 18" tyres, a service (£130) and a fuel pump. I've chucked some further non-essential cash at it to refurb wheels and a bit of paint (I hate stone chips) Apart from fuel and tyres they don't really cost anymore than any other petrol mondeo to run. I'm open to spending a bit more on a different car if it's special enough.

If it is BMW I go for I'd definitely go for a mint, late e36. As you said my budget would get me clean one and may even leave cash for a suspension refresh etc. The e46's do nothing for me and I love the boxy 90's styling of the older car.

I test drove a Milano Red CTR yesterday and was really impressed with it. I actually like the styling (in red) and think they look better and smaller in the metal than in pics. My budget seems to be enough for an un-molested face lift car if I shop around.

Can't say I know much about the Integras or S4's so I'll have to do a bit of research.

Thanks for all your suggestions.

[Golaboots]

If I had your budget and car requirements I would be looking at:

Jag XKR, luxury, cheap, V8 Supercharged.
Alfa 156 GTA, all the character in the world.
Vovlo S60R bit different, comfy and quick.

Haven't actually looked for any of those but would imagine they are around your budget.

[PetrolDriver]

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3943912.htm

I know I'm predictable at the moment.

A nice blend of pace, comfort, reliability, decent running costs. Not as hardcore as an E36 M3 but that's where my money would be going.

[a_bread]

300bhp/ton said:

you could be looking at a minter of an e36 or a tidy e46 and even 330i's. Although I believe BMW changed the steering on the 330 and many claim it not as good to drive as the early 328 e46.

I certainly wouldn't claim that. The steering was light on early models up to about summer 2001. Plus the engine is a step forward versus the 328.

[TameRacingDriver]

To be honest, having owned a 328, they are good all round cars, but I think you would be bored after the ST220.

OK, you have the RWD, but for me, the BMW was generally not that exciting. It feels quite heavy, and is quite refined which is great as a daily driver, but I have feeling you'll want something more raw.

Personally, my money would be going towards a DC2 Integra R (much better than the Civic BTW) or a Clio Trophy, Ford Racing Puma, Focus RS or if you don't need the practicality, MX5 Mk2.5 RS Limited / 1.8 Sport 6-speed, MR2 Roadster (maybe even with a V6 or TTE turbo), MR2 Turbo, heck, you might even be able to get a Cat C VX220 for that with minor damage? Or maybe a Subaru Impreza or Evo if you can live with the running costs.

[shalmaneser]

JMinty mc mint 328io i reckon. Not driven on mind, but it's what I'm after once the 205 gets shuffled along.

[PetrolDriver]

a_bread said:

I certainly wouldn't claim that. The steering was light on early models up to about summer 2001. Plus the engine is a step forward versus the 328.

Agree. I regularly drive a brand new X5 4.0d and the steering is so light you can tickle it around corners. If this is the way things are going then people really need to buy up all the E36's and E46's and enjoy them before they die a death!

My E46 has brilliant steering, my Z4 and 120d before that were excellent.

The X5 and E92 320d I drive, not so good.

[Bohally]

PetrolDriver said:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3943912.htm

I know I'm predictable at the moment.

A nice blend of pace, comfort, reliability, decent running costs. Not as hardcore as an E36 M3 but that's where my money would be going.

8 Previous Owners and CAT D tho??

[Fox-]

PetrolDriver said:

My E46 has brilliant steering, my Z4 and 120d before that were excellent.

Agree with you about the E46 but I am staggered you found the Z4 to have excellent steering. It's absolutely the weak link of the car - the Z4 has terrible, terrible steering, so bad that it comes close to ruining the entire package. Sadly the Z4 was BMW's first attempt at electric power steering and this is why it's so bad. Your E46 is miles, miles better steering wise than the Z4.

You are the only person I have ever seen to do anything but criticise the steering of the non-M Z4.

[VinceFox]

Youll get a decent e36 m3 for 4k, possibly a good evo. Youll just have to look at a lot of st and misrepresented stuff that's been owned by complete fking halfwits before you find the right one, but they are out there and they are worth it.

[PetrolDriver]

Bohally said:

8 Previous Owners and CAT D tho??

I'd go out on a limb and say still an awful lot of car for the money.

[PetrolDriver]

Fox- said:

Agree with you about the E46 but I am staggered you found the Z4 to have excellent steering. It's absolutely the weak link of the car - the Z4 has terrible, terrible steering, so bad that it comes close to ruining the entire package. Sadly the Z4 was BMW's first attempt at electric power steering and this is why it's so bad. Your E46 is miles, miles better steering wise than the Z4.

You are the only person I have ever seen to do anything but criticise the steering of the non-M Z4.

Perhaps I'm comparing it to even later BMW's? The X5 is laughable, E92 the same.

I did tend to drive it in Sport mode most of the time, tightened it up a lot.

I'm not blessed with a huge amount of experience of driving other cars, what I have driven is mostly BMW but the Z4 didn't stand out as being poor in comparison to 2010 and later cars.

[Bohally]

PetrolDriver said:

I'd go out on a limb and say still an awful lot of car for the money.

Could well be right. I'd be going over it with a VERY fine toothed comb though. Could well have been 8 enthusiasts but could also have been been 1 enthusiast and 7 barry aholes.