One car laps another, what is the time gap?
Discussion
zac510 said:
Vocal Minority said:
The exact time will be the lap time of the slower car on their next lap. Namely the point it takes them to get to the exact point in the race where they were lapped.
It's not the same time gap as now the lead car has moved on by one lap.zac510 said:
I thought that because we have two cars on the exact same point on the track (but different laps) we would be able to calculate the time difference rather than wait a lap to know the time difference.
It'll probably be close to the average lap time of the slower car. However, who knows how consistent that driver will be on their next lap...zac510 said:
I thought that because we have two cars on the exact same point on the track (but different laps) we would be able to calculate the time difference rather than wait a lap to know the time difference.
What do you mean "calculate the time difference"? You don't calculate anything. You time it with a stopwatch.You don't know the time difference until the 2nd car has passed the same point as the 1st car.
Imagine a very long road with marker posts exactly once per mile. You won't know the time difference between the two cars until the first one has passed a post (and you start the timer) and then the 2nd one passes the same post.
The fact that the first one is at the next post already makes no difference.
ETA - Time differences are not measured at a "point in time" they are measured at a "distance into the race". I think it's this point which is causing some confusion.
zac510 said:
The time difference exists always regardless of posts. It's a bit simplistic to think that it can only be measured and not calculated.
Of course the difference always exists, I was using the posts to illustrate how it's measured at different distances into the race.Imagine, then, a post every yard, or foot, or inch, you can measure it as often as you like but the method is the same. The point is that you can only measure it at a particular distance; First car goes past a point/post (i.e. marker of a distance into the race, for example "the finish line at the end of lap 10), then the 2nd car goes past the same point (distance into the race, the finish line at the end of lap 10). Elapsed time is the time gap at that distance, i.e. at the end of lap 10. (It STILL doesn't matter than the faster car is now on lap 11.
You can't know the gap "at lap 11" until the 2nd car has completed lap 11, not lap 10, because you don't yet know how fast that car will go in lap 11.)
The most up to date gap available is the one measured up to the point where the slower car is currently, so if the slower car is just finishing lap 10, then that's the latest gap. The gap at this distance is the time since the first car passed that point, i.e. since the first car finished lap 10.
I feel like I'm repeating myself. Is it making sense yet?
ewenm said:
It'll probably be close to the average lap time of the slower car. However, who knows how consistent that driver will be on their next lap...
I calculated it with a spreadsheet and you are correct. The gap to the slow car is the duration of the race divided by the amount of laps the slower car has completed.Thus if we are 15 minutes and 43 seconds into a race and starting lap 11 the lead car laps the slower car as it is starting lap 10 then the gap is 1 minute and 34 seconds.
zac510 said:
ewenm said:
It'll probably be close to the average lap time of the slower car. However, who knows how consistent that driver will be on their next lap...
I calculated it with a spreadsheet and you are correct. The gap to the slow car is the duration of the race divided by the amount of laps the slower car has completed.Thus if we are 15 minutes and 43 seconds into a race and starting lap 11 the lead car laps the slower car as it is starting lap 10 then the gap is 1 minute and 34 seconds.
The duration of the race is nothing to do with it whatsoever! What if the first x laps were under the safety car, or in rain or something? How can that possibly tell you ANYTHING about the current gap?! This is getting silly.
Once you've been lapped, you're not a time gap behind, but in effect a distance gap, i.e. you will be listed as + 1 lap, as will all others who have been lapped. The lap charts will show lapped cars in the correct order, i.e. the last to have been lapped will be the first runner listed at + 1 lap.
Think that makes sense!!
Kim
Think that makes sense!!
Kim
kimducati said:
Once you've been lapped, you're not a time gap behind, but in effect a distance gap, i.e. you will be listed as + 1 lap, as will all others who have been lapped. The lap charts will show lapped cars in the correct order, i.e. the last to have been lapped will be the first runner listed at + 1 lap.
Think that makes sense!!
Kim
Agreed this is how the timing screens will show it, but you CAN measure the time gap. (You just can't "calculate" it, since that would be nothing more than an estimate/guess/prediction.)Think that makes sense!!
Kim
I still don't see why it's so outrageous that the time gap can be a dynamic, live thing. It just seems obvious that there will always be time between two cars even when not comparing the two sector points.
It was the +1L gap shown on the live timing that prompted me to wonder what the actual time gap was. I know it's almost irrelevant once it's greater than 1 lap but curiosity got the better of me
It was the +1L gap shown on the live timing that prompted me to wonder what the actual time gap was. I know it's almost irrelevant once it's greater than 1 lap but curiosity got the better of me
zac510 said:
I still don't see why it's so outrageous that the time gap can be a dynamic, live thing. It just seems obvious that there will always be time between two cars even when not comparing the two sector points.
This will probably be my last attempt.Yes, there's always a physical gap between the cars, but you won't know what the time gap is until the 2nd car has passed the point where the first car was. And why? Imagine the fast car is at the 2nd corner and the slow car is at the start line. You could claim that you can "calculate" the current gap. My answer would be that the gap is the time since the fast car crossed the line, since that's the latest point to which the 2nd car has arrived and is therefore the most recent distance they've both hit (at different times) and so the gap can be calculated.
You seem to be under the impression that you can calculate the "live" gap somehow based on how far apart the cars are. But what if the the slow car came off the track at the 1st corner? It would never reach the 2nd corner where the fast car was. So any "estimate" or "calculation" of a gap is going to be wrong. You can predict a gap, sure, but that's no more than a guess.
I've explained this quite clearly several times. If you don't get it now then I'm not sure you ever will. Maybe someone with even more patience than me will try to explain it again, but I think I'm done. Good luck.
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