5.1 or 7.2?

[Booyakajon]

Morning All,

I'm planning a cinema room around a Pioneer VSX 2021 amp a 2m x1.5m projector screen with a sony HS50 projector. The room is 5m x 6m.

I am thinking of in-wall speakers (all the plaster is off at the moment and the room will be wood panelled) and have been looking at speakercraft or monitor audio speakers. Does anyone have experience of either?

Also would a 7.2 system give much better sound than a 5.1 system? I know there aren't a great deal 7.2 soundtracks around at the moment but you never know what all happen!

Cheers

[Booyakajon]

There is a bay window at the front of the room. The projector screen is opposite the window. The seating will be approximately 2 m in from the window - 4m from the screen - so there would be space to position surround back speakers as well as surround - its just whether there would be an appreciable difference?

[Booyakajon]

I have had this projector for 7 years now - it was in regular use for 5 years but has been in storage until last year when we moved into our final house. Have set it all up and it still looks good - particularly with skyHD. When it gives up the ghost (or the lamp goes) I will go for 1080p. I have put an HDMI 1.4 cable, cat6, VGA & 12v trigger to it through the ceiling so should be 'upgradeable'.

Cheers

[FlossyThePig]

Booyakajon said:

all the plaster is off at the moment and the room will be wood panelled

Have you considered the affect panelled walls will have on the room acoustics?

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Playing with the "Other Sat" setting on my TV last night and found the BBC Olympic channels being tested. They all indicated 1080i.

Edited by FlossyThePig on Saturday 30th June 15:52

[NorthDave]

I would go for Speakercraft speakers - the best you can afford. We used to be a purely B&W house until they pretty much forced us in to using someone else. We have never looked back.

Quality is great.

[Booyakajon]

Thanks for the advice guys.

Flossythepig - what affect would wood panels have on acoustics?

ToxicNerve - Thanks, will look into B&W - looked at their website - couldn't see a dedicated centre in wall speaker though

[Booyakajon]

Northdave - which speaker craft speakers are you using? I've been looking at the AIM cinema 3 with AIM LCR 3 centre and surrounds - or the '1' series. Its difficult to hear them as not many retailers have them installed

[OldSkoolRS]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Consider yourself corrected as it's broadcast in 1080/50i though some content is reportedly recorded in 720p (particularly in the US where some of it is broadcast in 720p).

Under 'technical details' paragraph:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_HD

And re the OP, if you have a decent distance behind your main seating position, then the extra 2 surround speakers certainly help to fill in the gap.

[Booyakajon]

The 8NT and CWM7.3 look great, but as you say, pricey. Have you any experience with the CWM LCR 7s? I am swinging to a 5.2 system using the spare 2 channels for bi-amping the front speakers - although I haven't been able to find out if any of these speakers are bi-ampable - there is no mention of it on the B&W website so I suppose not. 5 LCR7s and 2 subs, should make up for the smaller size of the LCR 7 4" woofers? maybe 2 B&W ASW600s. If the LCR 7s won't cut the mustard for the front L&R then I guess I could put the CWM7.3s on my Christmas list.

With regards to the room - there will be a couple of large leather sofas, a wooden floor (with a rug!), the windows have internal wooden shutters (great for the projector) and wooden wall panelling (which will be insulated)- so I guess reflections will be an issue. Would the amp's sound processor setup be able to get around this?

The screen is motorised and there will be LED flat panel TV behind it for everyday use.

The speakers will be below the screen - in a built-in unit that will house the fronts, centre, 2 subs, amp, sky etc. The whole space for this unit is 2.38m wide and 90 cm high. The screen will descend to the 1m point

Thanks for the advice

[OldSkoolRS]

The MCACC feature will attempt to compensate for the room and speaker distances, though ulimately some room treatment might be worthwhile as amp EQ can't perform miracles especially at the mid end price range. It will help if your surrounds are an equal distance from the listening position too.

I don't think the B&Ws can be biamped: Many in walls I've looked at such as PMC don't seem to offer this option either. As in walls are a bit of a compromise compared to free standing speakers, it could be argued that any small improvements in sound quality from bi amping would be lost with in walls anyway. I was considering the PMC Wafer 2 speakers for my front three, but they were about twice the price of the more traditional PMC TB2+ which have the same drivers. I was advised that despite having the same drivers, the Wafer 2s still weren't as good as the TB2+ which FWIW I've bi amped with some spare channels on my Arcam power amp. Of course my speakers are on show, which may not be the effect you're after, but just pointing out there are some compromises despite what the brochures may imply.

More importantly: Have you demod any of the speakers you are considering? Of all AV components they are probably the most subject to personal taste and one man's 'clean detailed treble' is another's 'shrill and sharp treble' for example.

[Booyakajon]

I do usually listen to what I intend to buy - the difficulty now is finding a showroom with all the in-wall speakers mounted etc.

position-wise I should be able to mount them at an ideal height & distance from the listening position.

Cheers

[OldSkoolRS]

Sounds like you've got the chance of a great setup regarding positioning. I know what you mean regarding demoing wall mounted speakers though. I was hunting around for a dealer with the Wafer 2s in store and before I managed to find one some Oak TB2+ speakers came up for a daft price on AVforums for sale in Swansea...it just happened that 2 days later I was due to work in Cardiff, so perfect timing. I then sold my DB1+ speakers for £50 less: If I'd bought the TB2+ from new they would have been £600 more I think.

[IforB]

Cable for as many locations as you can to give you a chance of adjusting your setup in the future.

I have a 7.2 setup at the moment and will go to 9.2 as soon as I get round to putting the upper fronts up.

I've tried it as a 5.1 and it's nowhere near as good. I'm running a Pioneer LX-85 amp and B&W CM4's front and rear, CMC centre and DS6's at the side with 2 PV-1's.

Sounds flipping marvellous to be honest!

[IforB]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It wasn't that expensive really. One of the joys of e-bay and buying second hand from audiophile mates who are totally anal about their kit!

I've got a Panny 65VT30 as a screen and I simply can't fault it at all. A fabulous TV.

I'm convinced that the room dictates the quality of the sound almost as much as the kit itself. We were renovating the house so I was able to rip the ceilings down and then insulate properly and put up acoustic plasterboard to help deaden the room a bit. The difference that has made is astonishing. I've also been able to put the speakers in basically the ideal positions too. Fronts are equally spaced and stand away from the walls the right distance and the rears are the same. The sides are almost exactly in the middle on each side too.
Some of it is luck rather than design, but I'm not ashamed to admit that the AV system dictated the choice of the house!

Here's the front end. (AV cabinet has changed now to something slightly better that actually hides the cabling properly and fits the space.)

[GhostDriver]

Im running Monitor Audio Apex. The sound they produce is simply stunning. Not just stunning for a compact speaker but also put many cabinets to shame.

When buying I too was looking at B&W, had a listen to the m1s they wer not even close to the MAs.

If your after a flat ones then you'll have to go for the MA Shadows. I havnt heard them, but you may want to audition them before you decide.

A room that size though, I'd recommend 3 Apex A40 and 2 A10s for the surround. Or 4 if your going 7.2.

(also steer clear of MA Sub, alot better options for that price)

For a setup like this I would also recommend banging out a few questions on the AVForums, home cinema section.

[IforB]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Nice. What do you think of the VT50? I've heard very good things about them, even compared to the VT30.

[IforB]

2 PV-1's is probably overkill, but ah well, never mind!

Though running the two side by side but at a slightly lower level really gives a massive thump but great control too. It does sound better than just one. Not enough to justify the price really, but it's nice to have!

[OldSkoolRS]

IforB said:

2 PV-1's is probably overkill, but ah well, never mind!

Though running the two side by side but at a slightly lower level really gives a massive thump but great control too. It does sound better than just one. Not enough to justify the price really, but it's nice to have!

Nah, a pair of BK Monoliths would be more like it (and half the price too ). Having two subs can help smooth the response so it's something I'd like to try, but I think getting one Monolith into a living room without any domestic hassle was good going...

[IforB]

Getting a single monolith in is hard work, 2 is definitely a bridge too far! They are massive, if brilliant. I could probably just get a monolith in, but it might end up with me having to muck up the position of the fronts to get it in and I don't really want to do that.

[GhostDriver]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Dont get me wrong the M1s are great speakers, but I have listened to them back to back and on a blind test, was amazed at the difference. Mainly its the depth the Apex' convey, they really do mimick a larger cabinet speaker. The clarity on the MAs are only marginally better than the M1s.

The Kefs, I've never really been impressed with. Found them a bit too crispy. But as you say its all a personal thing. Im just trying to offer an opinion based on what Ive heard. Try and get a demo of the Apex though, I honestly cant find fault in them.

As for looks again subjective,

To me this is a piece of art......


And these, functional design...


And the Kefs are Eggs, ok if your an easter bunny. But seriously, the Kefs have been copied by alot of cheaper companies, and have lost that wow factor IMHO.

I will give you the fact that the Apex are rather large, and my wife was throwing a spaz when she found out how big they are (we have a small room). But she loves them now, as the design and quality of materials has won her over.