Jago SVA etc etc
Discussion
My dad's just bought another Jago, problem is on the Log Book it still says Escort, and no where have they said its a Kit Car/Jago ...
So he rang up the DVLA, and there looking into it saying if it needs an SVA they will take the log book away from us so we can't sell it on ... sounds abit harsh ...
If we want log book back we gotta have the SVA done (it would never pass)
Anyway, hopefully because it was built before the SVA dates we won't need one (but don't have prood when it was built)
Has this happend to anyone else, is this normall ?
Cheerz
Matt Doe
Cornwall, UK
So he rang up the DVLA, and there looking into it saying if it needs an SVA they will take the log book away from us so we can't sell it on ... sounds abit harsh ...
If we want log book back we gotta have the SVA done (it would never pass)
Anyway, hopefully because it was built before the SVA dates we won't need one (but don't have prood when it was built)
Has this happend to anyone else, is this normall ?
Cheerz
Matt Doe
Cornwall, UK
Sounds like you have got yourself a problem.
Basically you will have to go through an SVA test (it does not matter when the kit was built).
This is harsh but is the only correct way of doing it.
This is why it is always important to physically see the V5 document before you even consider making a purchase. Quite a few people have fallen foul of this problem.
This problem can also arise if a incorrectly registered vehicle is taken for an MOT as the tester is legally allowed to insist on seeing the V5 before he puts the vehicle in his test bay to do a test on it.
For further info see the technical web site www.joctechnical.org.uk
>> Edited by techsec on Saturday 7th August 14:21
Basically you will have to go through an SVA test (it does not matter when the kit was built).
This is harsh but is the only correct way of doing it.
This is why it is always important to physically see the V5 document before you even consider making a purchase. Quite a few people have fallen foul of this problem.
This problem can also arise if a incorrectly registered vehicle is taken for an MOT as the tester is legally allowed to insist on seeing the V5 before he puts the vehicle in his test bay to do a test on it.
For further info see the technical web site www.joctechnical.org.uk
>> Edited by techsec on Saturday 7th August 14:21
Well regards the MOT tester doing an MOT and whether he should have this is a yes and no answer.
In theory he should have checked the V5 before doing the test but most testers do not either have the time to check peoples paperwork or aren't bothered.
The only time most testers will "do it by the book" is if the DVLA inspectors are there assessing their MOT procedure. We had one of our Jago's failed once only because the inspector was there and had pointed out what he classed as a breach in the regulations regards our vehicle. I can't remember what it was but is was minor and only took about 10 minutes if that to put right.
I think there is a reasonable explaination of what the SVA entails on www.totalkitcar.com
but basically it is aimed at ensuring there are no "harmful" areas on the exterior and interior of the vehicle which could cause harm to anyone making contact with them for example either by being hit by the vehicle or being in the vehicle in a crash situation.
It covers all the following points Anti theft, defrost/demist, wipers/washers, seats ,seatbelts, interior, radio suppression, glazing, lighting, mirrors, tyres,doors etc, exterior, steering, design/construction, brakes, noise, emissions petrol/gas, emissions diesel, speedo, design weights.
At the end of the day it is another chunk of red tape aimed at stopping folks being individual.
The fact that most mass production vehicles if put through the test probably would fail shows how rigourous it is.
Naturally as with any form of test there is some individual interpretation of the rules by the different examiners carrying out the test.
Main problems for a Jago are some of the body profiles, the bonnet hinges, the bonnet fasteners if using the rubber on the hook type (we have got the sva approved catches on all our Jago's (available from Europa Specialist Spares), the door locks as they are not two stage and antiburst (could always go with the roof and doors off using the what ain't there can not be tested method of presentation), the steering column as it is not a collapsable item (might get away with the original Escort steering wheel which had a collapsable boss but in most Jago's they are too big for the seating position most people adopt and so rub on the legs), zip ties on the steering rack gaters, roo bars I am sure will be a real no no, exposed nuts and bolts as these should all be covered with plastic caps (quite a few of the stalls at kit car shows have started stocking various sizes of these to allow the kit car owner to adhere to this rule).
The list could go on but basically if it is an edge then it has to be covered.
Sorry if this all seems depressing but hopefully I have given you some idea what you need to be looking at to get the Jago through should they rule against you.
In theory he should have checked the V5 before doing the test but most testers do not either have the time to check peoples paperwork or aren't bothered.
The only time most testers will "do it by the book" is if the DVLA inspectors are there assessing their MOT procedure. We had one of our Jago's failed once only because the inspector was there and had pointed out what he classed as a breach in the regulations regards our vehicle. I can't remember what it was but is was minor and only took about 10 minutes if that to put right.
I think there is a reasonable explaination of what the SVA entails on www.totalkitcar.com
but basically it is aimed at ensuring there are no "harmful" areas on the exterior and interior of the vehicle which could cause harm to anyone making contact with them for example either by being hit by the vehicle or being in the vehicle in a crash situation.
It covers all the following points Anti theft, defrost/demist, wipers/washers, seats ,seatbelts, interior, radio suppression, glazing, lighting, mirrors, tyres,doors etc, exterior, steering, design/construction, brakes, noise, emissions petrol/gas, emissions diesel, speedo, design weights.
At the end of the day it is another chunk of red tape aimed at stopping folks being individual.
The fact that most mass production vehicles if put through the test probably would fail shows how rigourous it is.
Naturally as with any form of test there is some individual interpretation of the rules by the different examiners carrying out the test.
Main problems for a Jago are some of the body profiles, the bonnet hinges, the bonnet fasteners if using the rubber on the hook type (we have got the sva approved catches on all our Jago's (available from Europa Specialist Spares), the door locks as they are not two stage and antiburst (could always go with the roof and doors off using the what ain't there can not be tested method of presentation), the steering column as it is not a collapsable item (might get away with the original Escort steering wheel which had a collapsable boss but in most Jago's they are too big for the seating position most people adopt and so rub on the legs), zip ties on the steering rack gaters, roo bars I am sure will be a real no no, exposed nuts and bolts as these should all be covered with plastic caps (quite a few of the stalls at kit car shows have started stocking various sizes of these to allow the kit car owner to adhere to this rule).
The list could go on but basically if it is an edge then it has to be covered.
Sorry if this all seems depressing but hopefully I have given you some idea what you need to be looking at to get the Jago through should they rule against you.
If the Jago needs an SVA we won't be putting it through it as it will cost to much money/time and work.
How ever we couldn't sell the Jago on with the documents, as the DVLA will take away these documents if it needs an SVA, so looks like were abit f**ed if it does need an SVA.
How does the Jago keeps it's original plates then ?
As if it goes through an SVA won't it be put on a Q plate, does that mean all jagos that are on orginal plates haven't told the DVLA that it's a kit car now ?
Has anyone else in the club had this problem ?
If so how much does it cost to put right ?
How ever we couldn't sell the Jago on with the documents, as the DVLA will take away these documents if it needs an SVA, so looks like were abit f**ed if it does need an SVA.
How does the Jago keeps it's original plates then ?
As if it goes through an SVA won't it be put on a Q plate, does that mean all jagos that are on orginal plates haven't told the DVLA that it's a kit car now ?
Has anyone else in the club had this problem ?
If so how much does it cost to put right ?
Some folks when they built there Jago or any other kit car for that matter used a loop hole that was around at various times which allowed the original donor plate to be kept if proof was there to say the kit car was built from just the one donor vehicle. With of course the exception of safety related items such as brakes, steering components etc that would be classed as service items even on the donor car. The most recent version of this was a points system where if the kit vehicle gained so many points for items from a single donor vehicle then it was able to retain that registration plate but naturally had to be registered as the make and model of the kit vehicle it was.
However there are still quite a few kit cars of various types running around with incorrect documents which will eventually cause some poor person (such as yourselves) much grief when discovered.
There is a classic example on the totalkit car site of this and the grief it can cause. The chap who has written the item bought a Cobra replica (against advice not to) and soon discovered at great expense and personal hassle what problems can occur. It is worth reading the article.
Short of breaking the Jago you have got which is incorrectly registered into spares and cutting the chassis up ( as this is the part that will always lead to red tape problems) the only alternative is to contact your local SVA test centre and ask whether they would be willing to advise you on what items on the vehicle they would have concern with.
As I have already said there are a few things that you can without too much expense do to assist (the sva type bonnet fasteners). But of course if there is loads more that needs doing then you have to weigh up whether the expense is worth the fact you will have a road legal Jago.
Or of course the other option is to get an old Suzuki SJ and fit the Jago body to that. Again you will have to scrap the Jago and of course cut the chassis up.
The Suzuki is then reregistered as having had a body kit (see previous issues of Transmissions about Suzi J and the latest Suzuki conversion).
However there are still quite a few kit cars of various types running around with incorrect documents which will eventually cause some poor person (such as yourselves) much grief when discovered.
There is a classic example on the totalkit car site of this and the grief it can cause. The chap who has written the item bought a Cobra replica (against advice not to) and soon discovered at great expense and personal hassle what problems can occur. It is worth reading the article.
Short of breaking the Jago you have got which is incorrectly registered into spares and cutting the chassis up ( as this is the part that will always lead to red tape problems) the only alternative is to contact your local SVA test centre and ask whether they would be willing to advise you on what items on the vehicle they would have concern with.
As I have already said there are a few things that you can without too much expense do to assist (the sva type bonnet fasteners). But of course if there is loads more that needs doing then you have to weigh up whether the expense is worth the fact you will have a road legal Jago.
Or of course the other option is to get an old Suzuki SJ and fit the Jago body to that. Again you will have to scrap the Jago and of course cut the chassis up.
The Suzuki is then reregistered as having had a body kit (see previous issues of Transmissions about Suzi J and the latest Suzuki conversion).
If I can add something to the 'MOT' interpretation discussion, my Jago was built in 1982 using Mk1 Escort parts. Needless to say when I bought it earlier this year it had no MOT - but I think (if I can remember!) the registration documents do list it as a Jago. BUT at the time of purchase it didn't have an interior mirror - and no sign of it ever having had one - both external mirrors were smashed, the reverse lights didn't work, and could never have done so looking at the state of the wiring, plus the seats are held in place with bolts and body washers, not a spreader plate in sight! I am very near to sending it for its test, post-rebuild, but still have a few minor jobs needing doing. Your points are very true - an MOT, although having guidelines, is very open to the testers interpretaion. I keep asking myself: "how did my Jago EVER pass an MOT let alone an SVA test?"
Hope you get a good result in the end because I am sure you will get a lot of fun out of the Geep if you persivere with it - I'm looking forward to getting mine ready for a Club meet, hope to see you there!
Hope you get a good result in the end because I am sure you will get a lot of fun out of the Geep if you persivere with it - I'm looking forward to getting mine ready for a Club meet, hope to see you there!
Just got back from having Panther (the Samuri) MOT'd.
Thankfully she passed but I was discussing the problems of various kit vehicles and incorrect registration documents and the red tape involved to correct problems (SVA etc) and the tester agreed that most older kit cars like Jago's would be very hard pushed to get through the SVA because of the way the Government etc have made the rules.
Oh yes on a point I have raised on various discussions on the forums and also mention on the technical site I was actually asked for the V5C document by the tester (Who I have known for years and have always used).
I had taken it with me as I always do just in case it is requested.
The request was made before we got onto the discussion of SVA etc so was not due to that train of thought. Rather it was what lead to the discussion of the pitfalls for kit car owners.
Basically like you say it is just a case of waiting to see what the DVLA decide to do regards your case and take it from there.
I am wondering if the SVA is part of the reason why despite numerous letters to Belfield Engineering I have not heard anything more about the new Jago Sandero kit.
Perhaps he has decided that the SVA will either stop builders getting any further than putting it together or will discourage folks from buying the kit in the first place.
Who knows?
Thankfully she passed but I was discussing the problems of various kit vehicles and incorrect registration documents and the red tape involved to correct problems (SVA etc) and the tester agreed that most older kit cars like Jago's would be very hard pushed to get through the SVA because of the way the Government etc have made the rules.
Oh yes on a point I have raised on various discussions on the forums and also mention on the technical site I was actually asked for the V5C document by the tester (Who I have known for years and have always used).
I had taken it with me as I always do just in case it is requested.
The request was made before we got onto the discussion of SVA etc so was not due to that train of thought. Rather it was what lead to the discussion of the pitfalls for kit car owners.
Basically like you say it is just a case of waiting to see what the DVLA decide to do regards your case and take it from there.
I am wondering if the SVA is part of the reason why despite numerous letters to Belfield Engineering I have not heard anything more about the new Jago Sandero kit.
Perhaps he has decided that the SVA will either stop builders getting any further than putting it together or will discourage folks from buying the kit in the first place.
Who knows?
Re: new Sandero kit/SVA.
Surely the Sandero could be suitably updated to pass the SVA??? The Eagle Jeep is still available which comes from the same era as the Geep and is a similar vehicle.
Out of interest, what will the new Sandero be based on? I've seen the pictures of the Sierra chassied car but it looks a bit wide.
Surely the Sandero could be suitably updated to pass the SVA??? The Eagle Jeep is still available which comes from the same era as the Geep and is a similar vehicle.
Out of interest, what will the new Sandero be based on? I've seen the pictures of the Sierra chassied car but it looks a bit wide.
As such there is no new Sandero kit.
There was going to be but due to lack of interest regards sales plus the SVA it has been decided to discontinue the kit as such.
What Belfield are doing instead is offering a chassis modification/ new chassis to convert the Escort based Geeps/Sandero's to the Sierra set up so the Sierra running gear can be fitted. (See topic on this and the yahoo forums)
This will hopefully not only revive some where the chassis may be getting tired but allows the more readily available parts to be fitted to a vehicle that would otherwise not be useable when the various "Ford" components are too worn to make it safe to use.
Yes it is a bit wider but the display model which we had with us at Stoneleigh 2003 looked the part.
Most folks previously said they would have liked the Geep more if it was wider and the feedback from the demo one was that it was good.
The main width is actually the wings and rear arches the main body tub if I remember correctly is the same width.
There was going to be but due to lack of interest regards sales plus the SVA it has been decided to discontinue the kit as such.
What Belfield are doing instead is offering a chassis modification/ new chassis to convert the Escort based Geeps/Sandero's to the Sierra set up so the Sierra running gear can be fitted. (See topic on this and the yahoo forums)
This will hopefully not only revive some where the chassis may be getting tired but allows the more readily available parts to be fitted to a vehicle that would otherwise not be useable when the various "Ford" components are too worn to make it safe to use.
Yes it is a bit wider but the display model which we had with us at Stoneleigh 2003 looked the part.
Most folks previously said they would have liked the Geep more if it was wider and the feedback from the demo one was that it was good.
The main width is actually the wings and rear arches the main body tub if I remember correctly is the same width.
Hi
I've put my two pics of the "Belfield" Sandero in the Stoneleigh album on the pics page. Taken at Stoneleigh 2003. See what Chris means by width increase on the wings.
The new tub would have fitted both old (narrower) and new (wider) chassis. The sample had the cutouts at the back for both.
Cheers
Ian
>> Edited by IanA on Saturday 16th October 21:45
I've put my two pics of the "Belfield" Sandero in the Stoneleigh album on the pics page. Taken at Stoneleigh 2003. See what Chris means by width increase on the wings.
The new tub would have fitted both old (narrower) and new (wider) chassis. The sample had the cutouts at the back for both.
Cheers
Ian
>> Edited by IanA on Saturday 16th October 21:45
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