Defender Anti-Stall

[Ayahuasca]

As I understand it, this opens the throttle if the car is on the verge of stalling.

OK, nice idea, but what is it for? I have seen a clip of a Defender using its A-S to pull a truck with nobody in the Defender driving, but there can't be many times when that is necessary.

A downside that I have noticed is that if I am going downhill with engine braking, and touch the brakes to go even slower, the Anti-Stall kicks in and opens the throttle - which is not necessarily what you want!

??

[anonymous-user]

It gives the Defender phenomenal rock crawling and hill climbing ability. Also excellent for getting up slight gradients when it's snowy/icy.

[camel_landy]

One of the main areas is for hill starts... You have more control as you're not using the handbrake!

• Clutch down & hold car on foot brake.
• Select gear (Prob 2nd or 3rd Low).
• Come up to bite point on the clutch (listening for the engine note).
• Once the engine note settles, gently come up a little bit further... and then a little bit further.
• Gently start releasing the foot brake and if you've done it right, you won't roll backwards.
• Continue with your hill start, feeding in the power and fully releasing the clutch.

Note: None of this should be rushed and with a little bit of practice, it should be nice & smooth!

M

[camel_landy]

Technically, all engines with EFI have some form of 'Anti-Stall'. It is all part of the feedback loop into the ECU...

Land-Rover have just exploited this 'feature' of the ECU, set different parameters to work within and have turned into a design 'Feature'!!

Although TD5 doesn't have this 'Feature', you can still use these anti-stall techniques (if you see what I mean??!!??)... You just have to be more gentle with your approach.

M

[300bhp/ton]

Very useful off road where you want the slowest possible speed.

[anonymous-user]

camel_landy said:

One of the main areas is for hill starts... You have more control as you're not using the handbrake!

How's that work then? Using the footbrake over the handbrake isn't a function of anti-stall, just a decision the driver makes. The anti-stall bit still assists a hill start regardless of which brake is used.

[camel_landy]

Crossflow Kid said:

camel_landy said:

One of the main areas is for hill starts... You have more control as you're not using the handbrake!

How's that work then? Using the footbrake over the handbrake isn't a function of anti-stall, just a decision the driver makes. The anti-stall bit still assists a hill start regardless of which brake is used.

Did you read what I put??

Foot brake over hand brake is how you STOP... Using anti-stall is how you START (as in hill START) .

M

[anonymous-user]

camel_landy said:

Crossflow Kid said:

camel_landy said:

One of the main areas is for hill starts... You have more control as you're not using the handbrake!

How's that work then? Using the footbrake over the handbrake isn't a function of anti-stall, just a decision the driver makes. The anti-stall bit still assists a hill start regardless of which brake is used.

Did you read what I put??

Foot brake over hand brake is how you STOP... Using anti-stall is how you START (as in hill START) .

M

Yeah I did read what you put.
I think I see what you mean....as the anti-stall takes care of the accelerator, it frees up your right foot to cover the brake? True, but hardly a massive advantage.

[camel_landy]

Crossflow Kid said:

Yeah I did read what you put.
I think I see what you mean....as the anti-stall takes care of the accelerator, it frees up your right foot to cover the brake? True, but hardly a massive advantage.

Basically, yes.

No-one said it was a "Massive Advantage" but it is quite useful and gives you more control (the hand brake only operates on the rear prop... The foot brake does all 4xwheels). It is another 'tool' to use... It can also make pulling away much, much smoother.

These days, I rarely bother using the hand brake at all!!

M

Edited by camel_landy on Tuesday 3rd July 12:52

[300bhp/ton]

camel_landy said:

Crossflow Kid said:

Yeah I did read what you put.
I think I see what you mean....as the anti-stall takes care of the accelerator, it frees up your right foot to cover the brake? True, but hardly a massive advantage.

Basically, yes.

No-one said it was a "Massive Advantage" but it is quite useful and gives you more control (the hand brake only operates on the rear prop... The foot brake does all 4xwheels). It is another 'tool' to use... It can also make pulling away much, much smoother.

These days, I rarely bother using the hand brake at all!!

M

Edited by camel_landy on Tuesday 3rd July 12:52

It would allow for a multitude of possible uses, such as left foot braking at low speed on non TCS equipped Defenders.

Using the handbrake to turn the vehicle tighter off road without risk of stalling or needing to give it loads of welly.

Not stalling on very technical low speed obstacles (e.g. rock crawling of some kind).

Helping to keep the motor running when you get into trouble and have to stop suddenly that might have killed the motor otherwise.

[anonymous-user]

camel_landy said:

the hand brake only operates on the rear prop... The foot brake does all 4xwheels

No transfer box and centre diff on your truck then?
The handbrake acts on the transmission system as a whole, via a drum on the rear prop. Suggesting it only brakes the rear wheels is plain wrong.

[300bhp/ton]

Crossflow Kid said:

camel_landy said:

the hand brake only operates on the rear prop... The foot brake does all 4xwheels

No transfer box and centre diff on your truck then?
The handbrake acts on the transmission system as a whole, via a drum on the rear prop. Suggesting it only brakes the rear wheels is plain wrong.

It works off the back of the transfer box and will indeed lock the rear wheels with the centre diff lock out. It's used for trialling a lot. The Borg Warner viscous coupled transfer box is ever popular as you don't even then need to worry about diff lock when using the hand brake.

[anonymous-user]

300bhp/ton said:

It works off the back of the transfer box and will indeed lock the rear wheels with the centre diff lock out.

Yeah I get all that, but in normal use where all four wheels are firmly planted it'll act through all four wheels.

[300bhp/ton]

Crossflow Kid said:

Yeah I get all that, but in normal use where all four wheels are firmly planted it'll act through all four wheels.

Very true, although I guess its fair to say a lot of Defenders get used for things way above the norm of most cars.

[camel_landy]

Crossflow Kid said:

...but in normal use where all four wheels are firmly planted it'll act through all four wheels.

OK, let me clarify... I'm talking about when you're in slippery conditions, not on tarmac!

With open diffs, front & rear, all 4x wheels have the ability to spin, even with the hand brake applied.

I'm sure you've also seen just how much movement/slack there is in the drive train when you apply the hand brake and take your foot off the brake. As for using the handbrake to hold the car on a really steep hill... Well, I find that on most cars, you'll be pullin the thing out of the floor before it holds you!

M

[anonymous-user]

Who said anything about tarmac?

[Bill]

camel_landy said:

Technically, all engines with EFI have some form of 'Anti-Stall'. It is all part of the feedback loop into the ECU...

Land-Rover have just exploited this 'feature' of the ECU, set different parameters to work within and have turned into a design 'Feature'!!

Although TD5 doesn't have this 'Feature', you can still use these anti-stall techniques (if you see what I mean??!!??)... You just have to be more gentle with your approach.

M

Just successfully tried it on my Disco2.

Re the OP's last para, in my last car in the snow I resorted to switching the car off on a decent as tickover was too fast.

[anonymous-user]

Bill said:

Re the OP's last para, in my last car in the snow I resorted to switching the car off on a decent as tickover was too fast.

What gear/range were you using? Low-2 is usually slow enough for pretty much anything.
And binning the engine during a descent? Interesting technique.

[300bhp/ton]

Crossflow Kid said:

Low-2 is usually slow enough for pretty much anything.

Low 2 is way to fast for 95% of the off roading I do. Low 1st and only 2nd if you really really need it.

[camel_landy]

Crossflow Kid said:

Bill said:

Re the OP's last para, in my last car in the snow I resorted to switching the car off on a decent as tickover was too fast.

What gear/range were you using? Low-2 is usually slow enough for pretty much anything.
And binning the engine during a descent? Interesting technique.

Indeed...

If you want slow, 1st Low and HDC on. Stopping the engine might actually have the opposite effect in snow as it will probably lock the wheels and cause you to start sliding!!!

If you start sliding, you're actually going to need to feed in the throttle to get control back again.

M