What if... the 928 had killed off the 911?
Discussion
I remember the 928 launching when I was a kid, and hearing that it was there to replace the 911. Didn't quite work out that way.
I found myself wondering earlier today: what would Porsche's model range have looked like if it had?
If the 911s had died, I guess the flat six would have gone with them. That would have left the 924/944 filling the junior end of the range and the 928 at the top of the food chain. From there, It is difficult for me to see the Boxster having emerged, as it would have been a rearward step away from front engined cars. More likely perhaps is a continued evolution of the 944 in coupe and cab forms.
I wonder whether the Cayenne, or something similar, would ever have seen the light of day. Perhaps something more like an FF, or a booted Panamera, or even something similar in size/concept to Audi's Avantissimo concept car would have filled that niche. Whatever it would have been, I'd guess it would have been derived from the look and feel of the 928.
The other thing was what would the 928 look like now? Even these days it doesn't look bad, so with Porsche's conservative design dept, perhaps a little tweak here and there would have given us something now as recognisably 928-ish as the 997/991 are recognisably 911s.
One thing I found quite surprising is a wiki article on the 928, which claims that on a track it was at least the match of its 911 contemporaries (964s) and faster off the line than all but the 964 turbo. Makes me wonder whether a present day 928 would be faster than its corresponding present day 911 counterpart.
I found myself wondering earlier today: what would Porsche's model range have looked like if it had?
If the 911s had died, I guess the flat six would have gone with them. That would have left the 924/944 filling the junior end of the range and the 928 at the top of the food chain. From there, It is difficult for me to see the Boxster having emerged, as it would have been a rearward step away from front engined cars. More likely perhaps is a continued evolution of the 944 in coupe and cab forms.
I wonder whether the Cayenne, or something similar, would ever have seen the light of day. Perhaps something more like an FF, or a booted Panamera, or even something similar in size/concept to Audi's Avantissimo concept car would have filled that niche. Whatever it would have been, I'd guess it would have been derived from the look and feel of the 928.
The other thing was what would the 928 look like now? Even these days it doesn't look bad, so with Porsche's conservative design dept, perhaps a little tweak here and there would have given us something now as recognisably 928-ish as the 997/991 are recognisably 911s.
One thing I found quite surprising is a wiki article on the 928, which claims that on a track it was at least the match of its 911 contemporaries (964s) and faster off the line than all but the 964 turbo. Makes me wonder whether a present day 928 would be faster than its corresponding present day 911 counterpart.
Undoubtedly it would have been the end of the rear boxer engined Porsche line. But a mid engined V8 Porsche would have probably been on the cards before long unless Porsche chose to abandon the pure sportscar market entirely. In hindsight the 928 was a very odd replacement for the 911 and history proved it to be a dead end.
Johnfrancis said:
MrFreight said:
They wouldn't exist now!
Why not?of course, that's all just an educated guess, & there may a parralel universe out there where they killed off the 911, took the v8 from the 928 & built a beast f a mid engined supercar with it.
but i doubt it
Why Not - I understand that they were struggling financially during this period - if they had killed off the 911 and gone totally with the 928 which I understand to be the plan then their "Ultra Loyal" 911 purchasers would have gone elsewhere - The 928 was not a seller in the 911 league - The 924/944 range would not have saved them - indeed as late as during the 964 period Porsche were not in rude health financially - it was decided NOT to kill the 911 and this ultimately is what saved them going forward - Modern Porsche such as Boxter/Cayman/Cayenne/Panamera is another era /story entirely.
Maybe I'm wrong - I've only been buying the brand since 1991 so who knows
Maybe I'm wrong - I've only been buying the brand since 1991 so who knows
Greg66 said:
One thing I found quite surprising is a wiki article on the 928, which claims that on a track it was at least the match of its 911 contemporaries (964s) and faster off the line than all but the 964 turbo. Makes me wonder whether a present day 928 would be faster than its corresponding present day 911 counterpart.
From a couple of very enjoyable trackdays at Castle Combe with some of the 928 boys, I can confirm that their 928s are indeed faster than my 964 on the straight bits...MrFreight said:
Why Not - I understand that they were struggling financially during this period - if they had killed off the 911 and gone totally with the 928 which I understand to be the plan then their "Ultra Loyal" 911 purchasers would have gone elsewhere - The 928 was not a seller in the 911 league - The 924/944 range would not have saved them - indeed as late as during the 964 period Porsche were not in rude health financially - it was decided NOT to kill the 911 and this ultimately is what saved them going forward - Modern Porsche such as Boxter/Cayman/Cayenne/Panamera is another era /story entirely.
Maybe I'm wrong - I've only been buying the brand since 1991 so who knows
Makes you wonder what will happen when the Die Hard 911 buyers all die and Porsche are left with a new generation of customers who see the rear engined formula for the flawed set up that it is.Maybe I'm wrong - I've only been buying the brand since 1991 so who knows
boxsey said:
From a couple of very enjoyable trackdays at Castle Combe with some of the 928 boys, I can confirm that their 928s are indeed faster than my 964 on the straight bits...
+1Plenty also running around with 300K on the original engine. Very understressed V8 motor, well balanced too, weight distribution feels 50:50
To suggest the 911lovers would have gone elsewhere if Porsche killed off the rear engine flat 6 layout is a strange claim, where would they go?
I would suggest that the company survived DESPITE the 911 rather than because of it, look at the best selling Porsches now, from what I understand, one of them has a front mounted, water cooled v8!!!!!, the other is a MID ENGINED Roadster.
Makes you think!
I would suggest that the company survived DESPITE the 911 rather than because of it, look at the best selling Porsches now, from what I understand, one of them has a front mounted, water cooled v8!!!!!, the other is a MID ENGINED Roadster.
Makes you think!
MrFreight said:
The 924/944 range would not have saved them - indeed as late as during the 964 period Porsche were not in rude health financially
The 944 may have prevented Porsche going bust and it was a victim of it's own success against the 911, if it had made a better noise and morphed into a 4wd 968 turbo with 400 bhp would people be as keen 964 turbo's now ?.Other way round IMHO, both 944 and 968 had direct competitors from Japan typically at much lower prices. 911 never really had any real direct competition, it was compared to various cars such as the French stuff (Venturi, Alpine), Lotus Espirit, Honda NSX and of course various Ferraris which are all very different to a 911 and that is before looking at the engine.
Hate to say it but if anything the fascination with the front engined cars probably almost killed Porsche, our 968 tiptronic for example is one of only 53 cars in the UK which says something about what a sales disaster the front engined cars were in the 90s.
Hate to say it but if anything the fascination with the front engined cars probably almost killed Porsche, our 968 tiptronic for example is one of only 53 cars in the UK which says something about what a sales disaster the front engined cars were in the 90s.
Johnfrancis said:
MrFreight said:
They wouldn't exist now!
Why not?Basically, I reckon that MrFreight is spot on.
What a great question. We'll never know now will we, but I suspect Porsche would have survived. The 928 by all accounts was a brilliant car, and had all of the right technology to move the brand forward. Let's face it the new 918 roadster is a V8 mid-engined car!
True it was the Boxster that "saved" the company, but the 924/944 range that bought the breathing space, and who is to say once the motorsport division got hold of the 928 it couldn't have allowed the brand to evolve even faster, there's nothing to say then that the "parallel universe" Boxster wouldn't have been a mini 918 except it could be called a Boxster 'cos it wouldn't be a xcross between a boxerengined roadster
In reality the 911 is now inferior to its contempories in terms of handling and ultimate track performance (Ferraris, Corvettes etc.) due to its rear engine constraints. Anyhow what do I know I'm on my 4th 911
Great to debate though
True it was the Boxster that "saved" the company, but the 924/944 range that bought the breathing space, and who is to say once the motorsport division got hold of the 928 it couldn't have allowed the brand to evolve even faster, there's nothing to say then that the "parallel universe" Boxster wouldn't have been a mini 918 except it could be called a Boxster 'cos it wouldn't be a xcross between a boxerengined roadster
In reality the 911 is now inferior to its contempories in terms of handling and ultimate track performance (Ferraris, Corvettes etc.) due to its rear engine constraints. Anyhow what do I know I'm on my 4th 911
Great to debate though
mollytherocker said:
Good question!
I am of the view that says Porsche would have gone under by the mid nineties.
MTR
I've my doubts on that. Considering Porsche's big sellers during the life time of the 928 (1977-95, 60000 produced at a much higher price point than the 911) were the 924/S/44/68 and it's been reported many times that these were a more profitable car in percentage terms against the 911, and those models were Porsche's savior. After all the reason for the 928 was simply because 911 sales were declining at one point. So, in a nutshell the 911 lives on to this day thanks to the modest four cylinder cars, the Boxster & most importantly those 4x4 yokes. Those models allowed Porsche to keep reinvesting in the 911 and in turn the 911 stood on it's own two feet as a very viable Porsche product, if not in the same league as the 4x4's.I am of the view that says Porsche would have gone under by the mid nineties.
MTR
P.s. I maybe talking b
ks but that's the way I remember it. Johnboy Mac said:
I've my doubts on that. Considering Porsche's big sellers during the life time of the 928 (1977-95, 60000 produced at a much higher price point than the 911) were the 924/S/44/68 and it's been reported many times that these were a more profitable car in percentage terms against the 911, and those models were Porsche's savior. After all the reason for the 928 was simply because 911 sales were declining at one point. So, in a nutshell the 911 lives on to this day thanks to the modest four cylinder cars, the Boxster & most importantly those 4x4 yokes. Those models allowed Porsche to keep reinvesting in the 911 and in turn the 911 stood on it's own two feet as a very viable Porsche product, if not in the same league as the 4x4's.
P.s. I maybe talking bks but that's the way I remember it.
I agree with most of that. However, those cars sold well because of the reputation of the 911. They stood alongise in its shadow.P.s. I maybe talking b
ks but that's the way I remember it. I just dont things would have been quite the same had the 911 died in the early 80's.
The Porsche 911 is the core - the race car. Porsche knows this very well. The 911 is the sales tool if you like. It sells the Cayenne and the Panamera.
It defines the brand.
MTR
NJH said:
Hate to say it but if anything the fascination with the front engined cars probably almost killed Porsche, our 968 tiptronic for example is one of only 53 cars in the UK which says something about what a sales disaster the front engined cars were in the 90s.
Too expensive and not enough performance IMHO, if the S3 had arrived with a 3.0 16v turbo and a £30k price tag would anyone have chosen a Jap instead.Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff