Monza with the double look banked circuit
Discussion
Just watched some 1956 formula 1 with Fangio.
Id never seen the oval I the middle of the track before but it looked great.
So when was this last used and is it still there or demolished?
Finally has any Phead been to the circuit in that format and experienced a race ? What was it like twice passing the grandstand on a lap measuring 6-7miles
Id never seen the oval I the middle of the track before but it looked great.
So when was this last used and is it still there or demolished?
Finally has any Phead been to the circuit in that format and experienced a race ? What was it like twice passing the grandstand on a lap measuring 6-7miles
Its still there but has pretty much been left to rot as far as I'm aware. Its bloody steep! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9Qh518kVjg
Footage from the film "Grand Prix" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7xN0nauWpQ
Footage from the film "Grand Prix" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7xN0nauWpQ
XG332 said:
I had a look whilst there racing with a team last year.
It's steeper than you first think and you often end up on hands and feet at the very top.
It's steeper than you first think and you often end up on hands and feet at the very top.
Imagine how good it would be to have a 24hour race with all the cara from Le Mans using the full circuit fantastic.
Also Imagine F1 cara flying round the banked section that would be very impressive and clearly they would have to amend downforce fr more top speed at this track.
Such a shame banked historic circuits are not used.
Ditto Reims ditto the full southern part of the Ring ditto the complete northern section of the ring.
FIA ruining the spectator sport but clearly helping safety though this last year I've heard of far too many deaths so maybe they are not that good
MikeyMike said:
Its still there but has pretty much been left to rot as far as I'm aware. Its bloody steep! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9Qh518kVjg
Footage from the film "Grand Prix" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7xN0nauWpQ
Those drivers had balls of depleted uranium. Footage from the film "Grand Prix" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7xN0nauWpQ
Fantastic.
Welshbeef said:
XG332 said:
I had a look whilst there racing with a team last year.
It's steeper than you first think and you often end up on hands and feet at the very top.
It's steeper than you first think and you often end up on hands and feet at the very top.
Imagine how good it would be to have a 24hour race with all the cara from Le Mans using the full circuit fantastic.
Also Imagine F1 cara flying round the banked section that would be very impressive and clearly they would have to amend downforce fr more top speed at this track.
Such a shame banked historic circuits are not used.
Ditto Reims ditto the full southern part of the Ring ditto the complete northern section of the ring.
FIA ruining the spectator sport but clearly helping safety though this last year I've heard of far too many deaths so maybe they are not that good
The high profile death of Dan Wheldon last year highlights the dangers of banked ovals quite well. Vegas is a much wider track than Monza but still it was the lack of width that was part blamed for the accident.
F1 cars on the old Monza banking? Well firstly, it was of concrete construction, way too bumpy for a modern F1 car. Secondly, the cars would be trimmed for low downforce, meaning they'd be pushing right to the edge at just over 200mph, on tyres not designed for the purpose. It'd basically be suicidal.
doogz said:
CampDavid said:
How many deaths havbe there been in automobile based car racing on a circuit?
The high profile death of Dan Wheldon last year highlights the dangers of banked ovals quite well. Vegas is a much wider track than Monza but still it was the lack of width that was part blamed for the accident.
F1 cars on the old Monza banking? Well firstly, it was of concrete construction, way too bumpy for a modern F1 car. Secondly, the cars would be trimmed for low downforce, meaning they'd be pushing right to the edge at just over 200mph, on tyres not designed for the purpose. It'd basically be suicidal.
The lack of width was certainly an issue, but was the the fact that it was a banked oval really a factor? If you've got cars travelling at up to 200mph, with open rear wheels, in close proximity, does it matter what shape/profile the track is?The high profile death of Dan Wheldon last year highlights the dangers of banked ovals quite well. Vegas is a much wider track than Monza but still it was the lack of width that was part blamed for the accident.
F1 cars on the old Monza banking? Well firstly, it was of concrete construction, way too bumpy for a modern F1 car. Secondly, the cars would be trimmed for low downforce, meaning they'd be pushing right to the edge at just over 200mph, on tyres not designed for the purpose. It'd basically be suicidal.
Genuine question BTW, not dismissing your comments.
The amount of time spent at 200mph in F1 these days is pretty finite, where as on an oval it's pretty much flat to the floor the whole way. Secondly, run off, on F1's 200mph bends there's a lots of run off which isn't achievable on an oval. Lastly, F1 cars are designed for F1 style shunts, they're strong but not designed in the same way that an IRL car is designed for example as the shunts they're involved in are less predictable but ultimately not as quick (200mph at the point of impact is a rare thing indeed in F1, can't think of it ever happening tbh)
In terms of them being close together, that's something IRL are trying to get away from as well as fitting covers to prevent cars launching into he air
doogz said:
The lack of width was certainly an issue, but was the the fact that it was a banked oval really a factor? If you've got cars travelling at up to 200mph, with open rear wheels, in close proximity, does it matter what shape/profile the track is?
Genuine question BTW, not dismissing your comments.
Also, there's the issue of the kind of manoevers that get used on a banked circuit.Genuine question BTW, not dismissing your comments.
On most racetracks, your overtaking line clips the apex. You get by by diving up the inside. On a high-speed banking, the higher you go up the banking the faster you can go, so in effect the overtaking line is on the outside.
A lot of accidents on the banked tracks happened when drivers either tried to outpace each other to the outer edge of the banking, where clipping tyres would result in the car being flung over the edge, or swapped from the inside line to the outside towards the end of the straight, resulting in more collisions if the cars were close.
Yes, it's exciting, but it's also bloody dangerous. There's no room for a run-off area on the other side of a near-vertical banked corner too so if you come to a halt or lose control up there, you'll either fall down across the track into the path of oncoming cars, or go over the edge. There's no margin for error.
Welshbeef said:
Imagine how good it would be to have a 24hour race with all the cara from Le Mans using the full circuit fantastic.
Also Imagine F1 cara flying round the banked section that would be very impressive and clearly they would have to amend downforce fr more top speed at this track.
Such a shame banked historic circuits are not used.
Ditto Reims ditto the full southern part of the Ring ditto the complete northern section of the ring.
FIA ruining the spectator sport but clearly helping safety though this last year I've heard of far too many deaths so maybe they are not that good
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