Wednesday 4th July 2012

BMW and Toyota working on joint sports car project

Co-operation agreement between the two carmakers includes plans for a shared sporty model

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BMW and Toyota have announced they are to build a sports car together. This is very early on in their relationship to talk about this, but that's good. It means PHers can tell them exactly what we want.

This is what's happened so far. Last Friday the bosses of both companies came together to tell the world just how much cosier their relationship had got.

They'd already announced that Toyota would be taking BMW's four-cylinder diesels from 2014 and that they'd be working on lithium-ion battery technology together.

Now they went further. "I believe BMW's strength is developing sports cars," said Toyota president Akio Toyoda. "I get so excited thinking about the cars that will result from this relationship."

BMW boss Norbert Reithofer said much the same thing: "Over the coming months, we will be exploring possibilities for further cooperation on... future vehicle architectures - for a sports car, for example."

Also part of the toy-share scheme are hybrid technology (Toyota's), lightweight carbon fibre construction (BMW's) and fuel cells (Toyota's).

So what are they likely to develop in terms of a sports car? For a start it's not going to be badge-engineered model like the Toyota GT86/Subaru BRZ. BMW's boss talked about protecting the "premium character and independence" of the BMW brands.

One possibility is that Toyota gets access to the i8 hybrid supercar architecture to create the high-tech, low-emission sports machine that Lexus really needs.

Toyota could also do great things with the i8's three-cylinder, British-built turbocharged petrol engine to create a hot-hatch hybrid for the next (better-looking) Auris, which is also British-built.

The Supra name is ripe for revival and that could happen with access to BMW's lightweight carbon fibre technology, which is said to be a whole lot cheaper to produce using their process.

Or maybe we're not thinking big enough? Given all the chassis and drivetrain technology of each company at your disposal, what 'TMW' (ahem) sports car would you create?

[PascalBuyens]

And people already commented that the GT86/BRZ looked too much like a BMW at the rear... Hmmm

[arkenphel]

Interesting... This could be very good for Toyota. But I can't see what BMW gets out of it, TBH. I'm not sure which direction future fuel for cars will take. Fuel cells? I don't think so. Hybrid? The Prius and Lexii power trains are so zzzzzzz..... (with the excepts of the LFA and IS-F)



"So what are they likely to develop in terms of a sports car? For a start it's not going to be badge-engineered model like the Toyota GT86/Subaru BRZ. BMW's boss talked about protecting the "premium character and independence" of the BMW brands."

Basically BMW says "we don't want our cars to be associated with most of the cheap, dull crap that Toyota churns out"...

Edited by arkenphel on Wednesday 4th July 10:18

Edited by arkenphel on Wednesday 4th July 10:19

[daveyc86]

arkenphel said:

Interesting... This could be very good for Toyota. But I can't see what BMW gets out of it, TBH.

Hybrid technology, Toyota are years ahead of BMW in that area.

[Johnboy Mac]

Sadly, I find nothing exciting about this 'joint venture' or what ever one wants to call it. More like cost saving (which is understandable). I'll believe the Toyota/BMW sports car when I see it.

[Aeroresh]

arkenphel said:

Interesting... This could be very good for Toyota. But I can't see what BMW gets out of it, TBH.

Id imagine its something to do with far eastern market shares as these seem to be emerging as the fastest growing premium markets. Always good to have a leg up with someone more local.

[ewenm]

On the other thread I said:

Article said:

"BMW's strength is in developing sports cars," said Toyota President Akio Toyoda

I'd have thought the 3 and 5 series were better examples of BMW's core strength than the Z4.

Edited by ewenm on Wednesday 4th July 10:26

[gionascm2]

I think it looks brilliant, I used to like this car.

[arkenphel]

daveyc86 said:

Hybrid technology, Toyota are years ahead of BMW in that area.

Hmmm, I suppose you're right. The Prius still is the epicentre of Dullsville though. I seriously hope BMW can make it more exciting...

[pilchardthecat]

Suspect they'll create a new brand inside a Joint Venture company.

[Johnboy Mac]

gionascm2 said:

I think it looks brilliant, I used to like this car.

The i8? Getting old now.

[arkenphel]

Aeroresh said:

Id imagine its something to do with far eastern market shares as these seem to be emerging as the fastest growing premium markets. Always good to have a leg up with someone more local.

That is true, I never thought of that too.

Not sure how that would work at the moment. It seems to be a purely technological partnership for now.

I wonder if Lexus feels sold out, it's parent company is now cavorting with the enemy....

[PastorOfMuppets]

Possibly for the purposes of also improving Lexus' offerings?

[Greg 172]

daveyc86 said:

arkenphel said:

Interesting... This could be very good for Toyota. But I can't see what BMW gets out of it, TBH.

Hybrid technology, Toyota are years ahead of BMW in that area.

And even better economies of scale in engine production cost if Toyota are taking the BMW diesels?

[MarJay]

BMW Vanos'd 3.2 straight six with Toyota turbos in a pretty chassis and a 6 speed manual. Could be good.

Or, a Prius drivetrain in a Z4-alike sportscar, except uglier, could be bad.

[garypotter]

Toyota's build quality and reliability
BMW engine and power train
independent design house for the body

Kia prices!!

perfect

[C.A.R.]

arkenphel said:

Hmmm, I suppose you're right. The Prius still is the epicentre of Dullsville though. I seriously hope BMW can make it more exciting...

No way. The Prius is at least more interesting than another car I can think of.

The Avensis.

[pSyCoSiS]

Hmmm...

Would be interesting to see the outcome of this....

[TNH]

Seems odd to me, that even though manufacturers are now creating platforms that can be utilised by more than one vehicle (several in a lot of cases) such as the VAG MQB architecture yet the prices for these cars seem to go up year on year.

Not that long ago, Ford for example would have a platform for the Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo etc. They would also have all different types and sizes of engines such as your 1.2, 1.4, 1.6, 1.8, 2.0, 2.3 etc for both petrol and diesel. They could also sell these cars for not a lot of money.

You would think that with all the platform sharing and engine sharing the consumer would see some sort of benefit from this sort of thing. Somehow, I don't think that we are.

[Captain Muppet]

arkenphel said:

Interesting... This could be very good for Toyota. But I can't see what BMW gets out of it, TBH. I'm not sure which direction future fuel for cars will take. Fuel cells? I don't think so. Hybrid? The Prius and Lexii power trains are so zzzzzzz

God yes, hybrids are so dull

arkenphel said:

(with the excepts of the LFA and IS-F)

Yes, except them. Do BMW have anything like those?

[stedale]

Can't see the supra name being revived, as any prestige/aspirational products are now the responsibility of the Lexus brand not Toyota. Lexus Supra? I don't think so. maybe a more cost effective LF-A with hybrid.