My engine failure

[J Chitty]

Here is the engine of my Cayman. 31000miles, no dealer service but one oil service.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81820014@N03/74961489...

The whole engine is in very good condition with no wear except the crack in the cylinder wall.

The engine was removed and stripped by a well known and reputable south eastern independent specialist and sent to Hartech for repair.

Here are some more pics.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81820014@N03/74961472...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81820014@N03/74961527...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81820014@N03/74961569...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81820014@N03/74961640...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81820014@N03/74961652...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81820014@N03/74961664...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81820014@N03/74961678...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81820014@N03/74961691...

As you can see, the workmanship is very good and I hope it will last longer than the first failed cylinder now.

The real question is, do Porsche really know or care why these cracks and also the scored liners are occurring? They must have an idea, but with shareholders and profits to preserve they are most definitely not saying. Do they hide behind the extended warranty argument?

With some fantastic performance cars on the current market place, should buyers vote with their feet especially as the residual values aren't what they used to be either.

Adult conversation only please!

Will post a pic of the car when it is back on its wheels.

[shortlad]

When it was serviced was the coolant checked? I wonder if it was an over heating thing?

Only an oil service in 31,000 miles on a high performance car?

Has the car been over revved? ECU checked?

I think an engine on any car of any age can fail. Yes the Japanese cars seem to fair better but they are still the combination of the same basic parts but maybe just not as stressed by high state of tune (well most of them with things like GTR and alike excluded).

[Davey S2]

shortlad said:

When it was serviced was the coolant checked? I wonder if it was an over heating thing?

It is generally caused by overheating as the scored cylinders are usually on the same bank which runs hotter than the other. Hartech install a lower temp sensor to make the fans come on at lower temps.

[chryslerben]

Bizarre so you've got a 31,000 mile engine that's only ever had one basic oil change and you seem rather unhappy with porsche that the engines got a issue.

To me the engines problems seem to stem from the owner whether that's yourself or previous owners.

[nickfrog]

Depending on the age of the car, 1 oil change is all it was officially needed I would have thought.

[anonymous-user]

chryslerben said:

Bizarre so you've got a 31,000 mile engine that's only ever had one basic oil change and you seem rather unhappy with porsche that the engines got a issue.

To me the engines problems seem to stem from the owner whether that's yourself or previous owners.

I know it's madness but they are 20k service intervals. Porsche decided that was acceptable, not the owners.

[fergus]

shortlad said:

Japanese cars seem to fair better but they are still the combination of the same basic parts but maybe just not as stressed by high state of tune (well most of them with things like GTR and alike excluded).

? Most Japanese cars run a higher state of tune per litre than many other cars, i.e. around 100hp/litre, and aren't as delicate in terms of requiring fastidious servicing. This is generally down to closer tolerances in the build stage. Most litre sportsbikes output close to 200hp/litre (at the crank) and are ridden by complete tools with little regard to warming up the oil, etc.

[J Chitty]

Nope, definitely me to blame on that front or more accurately my employment status 18 months after buying the car, but it seems to affect abused and cherished alike. The rest of the engine is in good condition, so Lockasil liners and maybe the coating on the Mahle pistons cannot cope with the design running temperature of the engine and the remote radiator cooling system.
There is not shortage of failures where the engines have been replaced under warranty so maybe the best best is to get some miles on the car before the dealer warranty runs out.

[chryslerben]

J Chitty said:

Nope, definitely me to blame on that front or more accurately my employment status 18 months after buying the car, but it seems to affect abused and cherished alike. The rest of the engine is in good condition, so Lockasil liners and maybe the coating on the Mahle pistons cannot cope with the design running temperature of the engine and the remote radiator cooling system.
There is not shortage of failures where the engines have been replaced under warranty so maybe the best best is to get some miles on the car before the dealer warranty runs out.

My apoligies, sorry to hear about your employment issues.

[shortlad]

fergus said:

shortlad said:

Japanese cars seem to fair better but they are still the combination of the same basic parts but maybe just not as stressed by high state of tune (well most of them with things like GTR and alike excluded).

? Most Japanese cars run a higher state of tune per litre than many other cars, i.e. around 100hp/litre, and aren't as delicate in terms of requiring fastidious servicing. This is generally down to closer tolerances in the build stage. Most litre sportsbikes output close to 200hp/litre (at the crank) and are ridden by complete tools with little regard to warming up the oil, etc.

I was thinking more of the run of the mill cars like the rest of the Nissan range apart excluding the GTR. Toyota Corollas, etc.

[J Chitty]

Employment situation sorted now thanks.

I also had an Yamaha R1 which is very high performance and rode 86000 miles on it in 4 years. I serviced it myself with the exception of the valve clearances and it never missed a beat! My back isn't quite as good though.

[J-P]

uktrailmonster said:

chryslerben said:

Bizarre so you've got a 31,000 mile engine that's only ever had one basic oil change and you seem rather unhappy with porsche that the engines got a issue.

To me the engines problems seem to stem from the owner whether that's yourself or previous owners.

I know it's madness but they are 20k service intervals. Porsche decided that was acceptable, not the owners.

Precisely - also if you go to an OPC for an annual oil change, the first thing they tell you is that it isn't necessary - and to be fair they have a point. The service schedule clearly states oil required every 2 years or 20,000 miles, whichever is the sooner. You can't blame owners for following an official service schedule.

If my car's engine was damaged, I'd be very peeved if Porsche didn't stand by their product, which is both under warranty and in line with their own servicing standards.

[Bennachie]

It's an 987.1 engine so potentially 4 years old minimum.

[G105ALY]

I guess having only one service in 31k means only 1 inspection? Mine had one service at OPC Leeds then 5 annuals at my great indi. Those five included a 120 point check which I imagine would flag potential issues. Its not just about changing the oil but general wear and tear condition checks. Sorry to heat of your misfortune.

[anonymous-user]

G105ALY said:

I guess having only one service in 31k means only 1 inspection? Mine had one service at OPC Leeds then 5 annuals at my great indi. Those five included a 120 point check which I imagine would flag potential issues. Its not just about changing the oil but general wear and tear condition checks. Sorry to heat of your misfortune.

Imminent failures of this nature wouldn't show up in routine checks. This particular failure would have still happened regardless of servicing intervals.

[Ian_UK1]

shortlad said:

I wonder if it was an over heating thing?

Accoring to Hartech's guide, the cylinder-cracking issue is normally caused by bores going oval, then cracking as a result - it seems to be more a design/materials fault than a servicing issue.

[Magic919]

I'm not sure what new ground this thread will cover. Most angles were covered on the original thread. Glad to hear the repair is in hand.

[monthefish]

chryslerben said:

Bizarre so you've got a 31,000 mile engine that's only ever had one basic oil change and you seem rather unhappy with porsche that the engines got a issue.

Even an engine that hadn't had its 20k oil change shouldn't have a catastrophoic failure at 31k miles as a result.

chryslerben said:

To me the engines problems seem to stem from the owner whether that's yourself or previous owners.

I can't believe you just posted that. Is that really what you think?

[Ian_UK1]

J Chitty said:

Here is the engine of my Cayman. 31000miles, no dealer service but one oil service.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81820014@N03/74961489...

The whole engine is in very good condition with no wear except the crack in the cylinder wall.

The engine was removed and stripped by a well known and reputable south eastern independent specialist and sent to Hartech for repair.

Here are some more pics.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81820014@N03/74961472...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81820014@N03/74961527...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81820014@N03/74961569...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81820014@N03/74961640...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81820014@N03/74961652...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81820014@N03/74961664...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81820014@N03/74961678...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81820014@N03/74961691...

As you can see, the workmanship is very good and I hope it will last longer than the first failed cylinder now.

The real question is, do Porsche really know or care why these cracks and also the scored liners are occurring? They must have an idea, but with shareholders and profits to preserve they are most definitely not saying. Do they hide behind the extended warranty argument?

With some fantastic performance cars on the current market place, should buyers vote with their feet especially as the residual values aren't what they used to be either.

Adult conversation only please!

Will post a pic of the car when it is back on its wheels.

Did Hartech fit the restraining rings to both cylinder banks?

[HoHoHo]

I suspect that if you are intending to buy a 996, 997 or Cayman that you must also budget for a warranty.

I agree that these engines shouldn't go pop but there is clearly a risk, otherwise you'll have sleepless night wondering when and if it might happen.

Expensive cars are expensive to repair when they go wrong.