Flash not working

[tenohfive]

I've got a Metz 24 AF-1 flash with my 400D and for some reason it's stopped working. The green light comes on to say it's ready but click away and nothing happens. Yet when I take it off the camera (but leave it turned on) and press down the metal contacts on the flash it goes off.

Any ideas?

[Simpo Two]

First thing I'd suggest is clean the hotshoe contacts with meths or similar. I do this before every wedding; the slightest bit of grease/atmospheric film can hinder operation.

[DIW35]

I don't know that particular flash unit, or how old it is, but if the trigger voltage is too high, it may have fried the flash circuitry of your camera. Have you tried another flash to be sure it's not a problem with the camera?

[LongQ]

Does the 400D's built in flash still work?

[RobDickinson]

DIW35 said:

I don't know that particular flash unit, or how old it is, but if the trigger voltage is too high, it may have fried the flash circuitry of your camera. Have you tried another flash to be sure it's not a problem with the camera?

Quick google says its made for canon ettl digital so should be fine.

Check the contacts.
Make sure you are in manual mode and a shutter speed below 1/200th
I think theres a little switch in the hotshoe on the canon which tells the camera there is an external flash mounted , check that.

[LongQ]

RobDickinson said:

DIW35 said:

I don't know that particular flash unit, or how old it is, but if the trigger voltage is too high, it may have fried the flash circuitry of your camera. Have you tried another flash to be sure it's not a problem with the camera?

Quick google says its made for canon ettl digital so should be fine.

Check the contacts.
Make sure you are in manual mode and a shutter speed below 1/200th
I think theres a little switch in the hotshoe on the canon which tells the camera there is an external flash mounted , check that.

There are 2 micro switches under some springy metal strips one each side of the flash mount bracket slide. They ae pushed down when you fit an extgernal flash. However the only problem I have known with them was on a 7D when the body flash would not pop up. The micro lever on one side was being held down by a slightly bent metal strip and keeping the pop-up flash locked down because it thought there was an external unit fitted.

The unit does need to be fully slotted in to the flash bracket. I couple of time my Canon 580 EX has needed a quick extra shove to make the contacts work even though on fitting it felt OK and locked into position. The last millimeter seems to count for a lot.

If not that then maybe a setting somewhere. I have a number of Metz units but all old non-hotshoe units and non-integrated so can't help with much that is specific. Sorry.

[LongQ]

Can't see a link to download a user guide form the Metz site but I note it has a slave mode feature so I guess it's worth checking that it is not set to that before going much further. You may already have provided an answer to that but best I check.

[tenohfive]

Simpo Two said:

First thing I'd suggest is clean the hotshoe contacts with meths or similar. I do this before every wedding; the slightest bit of grease/atmospheric film can hinder operation.

Done with some white vinegar, no joy.

LongQ said:

Does the 400D's built in flash still work?

Yes, and when I turn it on it pops up with the external flash fitted.

RobDickinson said:

Check the contacts.
Make sure you are in manual mode and a shutter speed below 1/200th

Visual check of contacts looks fine but I'm not sure what I'm looking for. On the flash there is a clump of four pins in a square following by a single pin slightly further forward. There's directly beyond that is a small pin sized metal contact but it's flush with the unit - I don't know if that's meant to be a pin or should normally be depressed?
In manual, 1/80 and 1/100 no joy.

LongQ said:

Can't see a link to download a user guide form the Metz site but I note it has a slave mode feature so I guess it's worth checking that it is not set to that before going much further. You may already have provided an answer to that but best I check.

The unit does need to be fully slotted in to the flash bracket. I couple of time my Canon 580 EX has needed a quick extra shove to make the contacts work even though on fitting it felt OK and locked into position. The last millimeter seems to count for a lot.

If not that then maybe a setting somewhere.

I can't actually see anything in the manual about putting it into slave mode. It's a very basic flash - it has an on/off switch and bounce flash - those are the only moving parts. From looking through the manual the various options can be changed in camera (buggered if I know how mind.) In any case I've not adjusted anything in camera. And it's slotted in as normal, with some extra pressure just to be sure.

It's all a bit odd because I've been using it fairly regularly for a few months and it's been working fine until now.

[LongQ]

tenohfive said:

LongQ said:

Does the 400D's built in flash still work?

Yes, and when I turn it on it pops up with the external flash fitted.

That, to me, suggests that the camera is physically unaware that the flash unit has been fitted.

If you look at the flash mount on the camera from the back, looking into the slot where the foot on the flash slides in, on the right and left you should see 2 raised springy meterial (I think) strips. On my 400D these may be plastic and are black. On the 7D I mentioned previously they were chromed metal and the same on my 600D so the basic common fitting may have changed at some point.

Under the right hand (as you look from the back) strip there is a button. On the left, on mine, a void (hole but no button). If you press the flash popup button on the camera it will pop up (presumably). If you switch the camera on and put a little pressure on the RH spring strip (you may need a small thin tool of some sort to do that, or maybe a toothpick or something non-metallic) it should depress the button underneath it and subsequent attempts to make the flash pop up should fail whilst the strip remains depressed. Bear in mind this will also make the hot shoe live.

Fitting the flash should have the same effect - prevent the camera flash popping up and making the hotshoe contacts live. It sounds like this is not happening so the next step is to identify why that should be.

[tenohfive]

LongQ said:

Fitting the flash should have the same effect - prevent the camera flash popping up and making the hotshoe contacts live. It sounds like this is not happening so the next step is to identify why that should be.

I managed to find the time to have a tinker earlier. I was able to depress the button on the right and that prevented the flash popping up, and when I added the external flash it worked. However the button isn't coming back up now, so it only works with an external flash. I'm assuming something is causing it to catch. This isn't a major issue as I don't use the inbuilt flash but I'd like to have the option.

The whole hotshoe is held down with a few screws. If I take those out to have a clean around underneath am I likely to do any sort of irrevocable damage? I'm mindful of the fact that it means playing with a pressure switch - otherwise I'd have just got stuck in.

[LongQ]

tenohfive said:

LongQ said:

Fitting the flash should have the same effect - prevent the camera flash popping up and making the hotshoe contacts live. It sounds like this is not happening so the next step is to identify why that should be.

I managed to find the time to have a tinker earlier. I was able to depress the button on the right and that prevented the flash popping up, and when I added the external flash it worked. However the button isn't coming back up now, so it only works with an external flash. I'm assuming something is causing it to catch. This isn't a major issue as I don't use the inbuilt flash but I'd like to have the option.

The whole hotshoe is held down with a few screws. If I take those out to have a clean around underneath am I likely to do any sort of irrevocable damage? I'm mindful of the fact that it means playing with a pressure switch - otherwise I'd have just got stuck in.

Sounds slightly odd.

On the 7D with which I experienced the problem the metal spring strip had been bent somehow. A previous rental I assume. I slightly tweaked the strip back to something like the expected shape and it worked, at least for as long as had the body.

My 400D flash fitting looks a little different to the later bodies I have in terms of materials but the principle should be the same, the button is pressed down by the springy strip and released as the strip rises. If the strip is not rising that would be th fault I had on the 7D. I bent it a little to a more correct shape and all was well for the rest of the time I had it. The button stuck down is a different matter. I would guess wobbling it gently might free it if it is stuck. Otherwise the spring that would rlease it may be broken in which case taking it apart may not help.

I vaguely recall thre were some posts on forums about this sort of problem so it might be worth a search.

That said ... where are these screws of which you speak? I can't see any screws on any of the flash mounts on my bodies. I'm beginning to wonder if you have a missing component.

I've not read this but the pics look useful.

http://www.conraderb.com/flashrepair/



Ok have now read some of it and it sounds very useful.

[tenohfive]

It is very useful and helps explain my current predicament. I don't have the hot shoe spring plate. What I'm looking at is what you'd be looking at if you removed the plate and I think that the buttons that I'm pressing down are what the spring plate would normally do.

I've ordered a replacement so hopefully that'll sort it.

Thanks for your help LongQ, it's much appreciated.

[LongQ]

tenohfive said:

It is very useful and helps explain my current predicament. I don't have the hot shoe spring plate. What I'm looking at is what you'd be looking at if you removed the plate and I think that the buttons that I'm pressing down are what the spring plate would normally do.

I've ordered a replacement so hopefully that'll sort it.

Thanks for your help LongQ, it's much appreciated.

My pleasure. When you mentioned screws I started to wonder if the plate was missing.

I've never seen a loose plate on a camera but I do have a hot shoe adapter where the spring plate is pretty much unattached. I assume you have checked your camera bag and so on - and, if possible, the place where you changed your flash after the last time it worked ... well, ok, no I wouldn't remember that either!

[tenohfive]

LongQ said:

My pleasure. When you mentioned screws I started to wonder if the plate was missing.

I've never seen a loose plate on a camera but I do have a hot shoe adapter where the spring plate is pretty much unattached. I assume you have checked your camera bag and so on - and, if possible, the place where you changed your flash after the last time it worked ... well, ok, no I wouldn't remember that either!

It's not in the bottom of the camera bag so it could be literally anywhere. Sods law says it'll turn up down the back of the sofa or something the day the new one arrives.

[LongQ]

tenohfive said:

LongQ said:

My pleasure. When you mentioned screws I started to wonder if the plate was missing.

I've never seen a loose plate on a camera but I do have a hot shoe adapter where the spring plate is pretty much unattached. I assume you have checked your camera bag and so on - and, if possible, the place where you changed your flash after the last time it worked ... well, ok, no I wouldn't remember that either!

It's not in the bottom of the camera bag so it could be literally anywhere. Sods law says it'll turn up down the back of the sofa or something the day the new one arrives.

You too? I thought that was only me.

That said - if it has come loose unnoticed maybe a new one may be required anyway?

[tenohfive]

LongQ said:

That said - if it has come loose unnoticed maybe a new one may be required anyway?

Camera bag? It's in near enough new condition, I've only had it a few months. I think showing the missus how to fit and use the external flash may have been a mistake, as before she touched it it was fine. (Not that I'd dare suggest that when she's just agreed to let me retain my testicles after buying a Tokina 11-16mm on the quiet.)

[LongQ]

tenohfive said:

LongQ said:

That said - if it has come loose unnoticed maybe a new one may be required anyway?

Camera bag? It's in near enough new condition, I've only had it a few months. I think showing the missus how to fit and use the external flash may have been a mistake, as before she touched it it was fine. (Not that I'd dare suggest that when she's just agreed to let me retain my testicles after buying a Tokina 11-16mm on the quiet.)

No, I meant the fitting. If it has become loose it may not be much use even if you find it.

That said - you let your missus use the camera AND the flash?

Do you share memory cards too?

[tenohfive]

Thread revival time. New flash problem that's probably unrelated but it saves creating a new thread.

I managed to drop the camera whilst shivering my tits off on top of Helvellyn a few months ago. Much to my relief no major damage was done - it landed on the hot shoe mounting, bending it but sparing any real damage to the rest of the camera. With a bit of awkward fiddling I've managed to straighten it out to and extent but it's not working properly.

When I attach the flash it clicks into place reasonably well but doesn't go off. If I then press the flash button causing the internal flash to pop up then push it back down then the external flash will go off for one or two shots but then it stops until I rinse and repeat. Why that works is beyond me.

Any ideas what's going on or how I can rectify this?

[LongQ]

tenohfive said:

Thread revival time. New flash problem that's probably unrelated but it saves creating a new thread.

I managed to drop the camera whilst shivering my tits off on top of Helvellyn a few months ago. Much to my relief no major damage was done - it landed on the hot shoe mounting, bending it but sparing any real damage to the rest of the camera. With a bit of awkward fiddling I've managed to straighten it out to and extent but it's not working properly.

When I attach the flash it clicks into place reasonably well but doesn't go off. If I then press the flash button causing the internal flash to pop up then push it back down then the external flash will go off for one or two shots but then it stops until I rinse and repeat. Why that works is beyond me.

Any ideas what's going on or how I can rectify this?

The tolerances are rather fine around the flash mount operation. If it has been bent I would guess that somewhere along the line the alignment and the things that were potentiall problematic last time are not quite as they need to be but close enough that things will work sometimes. Popping the built in flash will presumably move something in the mechanism that then just about allows the external flash to be recognised for a short period.

You could decide to spend time randomly playing with 'straightening' stuff and hope that it works when you need it to. But flash, when you need it, either works or does not work and really carrying the chance that it does not work is not a great idea in the annals of photographic creativity.

So, 2 3 logical choices.

a: get it repaired. You may find someone offering the parts you need but probably best to send it off to a recognised repairer.

b: resort to using the inbuilt flash but use if to drive extrenal flash units too. This may be overly complicated for your needs.

c: keep messing around until it becomes more reliable. Do this only if nothing you ever shoot with flash has any importance whatsoever.


HTH.

[tenohfive]

I'm going to try one thing before I give in and send it to be repaired - it seems that the flash trigger (not sure if the right terminology - the little bit that sticks up underneath the hot shoe plate) - I've seen a guide to replace it with a piece of paperclip. I'm going to give that a go and if that fails I'll give it to Canon to repair it. I shudder to think how much that'll cost me so the 0.5p paperclip fix has to be worth a try.

Unless anyone else has any suggestions that is.