Are the roads less 'wild' than they used to be?
Discussion
As above.
Today I was driving home via the A1 today where I happened upon a rather 'urgent' motorcyclist that made me consider what I perceive to be a change in driver attitude in the UK.
My attention was first caught by the motorcyclist in my rear view mirror as I was near the A1 entrance. He overtook me crossing a protected area for a right hand turn. No big deal, as he left plenty of room though I did think he was risking a blowout by driving over the stones and other assorted shrapnel swept off the road and into the protected area. Struck me at the time as probably just someone out for a good time and looking to make some progress.
As I entered the A1 up the slip road, the motorcyclist took up a central position on the road, leaning about to keep both lanes of traffic behind him before popping a wheelie and speeding off up the ramp towards the A1. By then, I was starting to think he was perhaps a loon, the type of person who seemed to be everywhere ten years ago. As he undertook an HGV on the hard shoulder to pass into lane 1, I was beginning to suspect he may have been unhinged and as we hit traffic, I saw him blasting off up the centre line between the two lanes of heavy traffic going end to end at 60mph.
Somehow, I again caught up with him at the off-slip/roundabout for my exit where he proceeded to look over, nod and slowly pull away onto the 50mph dual carriageway ahead. Another wheelie later, he shot off like rocket up the empty road and disappeared.
I was thinking afterwards how rare it is now to see displays of behaviour like this, as reckless as they may be. If I were to think back to a decade ago, the roads seemed to be filled with people taking risks like this. To stereotype owners of Japanese performance saloons (and I am an Impreza owner myself), there seemed to be loads of Imprezas and Lancer Evolutions indulging in traffic light Grand Prixs. Motorbikes seemed more common, as did lunatic riders. Bikers these days normally seem quite sedate. The young lad in a barried Corsa speeding around multistory car parks at night seem to have been replaced by young girls driving with a phone in their hand. Everyone seems to be going slower. A decade ago it seemed you saw more lunatics than dawdlers, but dawdlers seem to have proliferated whereas hooligans have waned.
Have you noticed this change? What do you think has caused it?
Were all the insane bikers simply on an exponential wave to dying out or becoming disabled through big crashes, leaving only the sensible ones to keep riding? Have s.59 notices really curbed anti social driving that much, coupled with better enforcement on insurance and MOT's (I notice far fewer 'scrapper' type cars around these days)? Has the rising cost of fuel and the proliferation of diesels turned the average motorist into a feckless sort incapable of driving a car to the speed limit?
Or is it just a case of rose tinted glasses, remembering all the lunacy of the old days in one condensed highlight reel of Darwinism in action?
Today I was driving home via the A1 today where I happened upon a rather 'urgent' motorcyclist that made me consider what I perceive to be a change in driver attitude in the UK.
My attention was first caught by the motorcyclist in my rear view mirror as I was near the A1 entrance. He overtook me crossing a protected area for a right hand turn. No big deal, as he left plenty of room though I did think he was risking a blowout by driving over the stones and other assorted shrapnel swept off the road and into the protected area. Struck me at the time as probably just someone out for a good time and looking to make some progress.
As I entered the A1 up the slip road, the motorcyclist took up a central position on the road, leaning about to keep both lanes of traffic behind him before popping a wheelie and speeding off up the ramp towards the A1. By then, I was starting to think he was perhaps a loon, the type of person who seemed to be everywhere ten years ago. As he undertook an HGV on the hard shoulder to pass into lane 1, I was beginning to suspect he may have been unhinged and as we hit traffic, I saw him blasting off up the centre line between the two lanes of heavy traffic going end to end at 60mph.
Somehow, I again caught up with him at the off-slip/roundabout for my exit where he proceeded to look over, nod and slowly pull away onto the 50mph dual carriageway ahead. Another wheelie later, he shot off like rocket up the empty road and disappeared.
I was thinking afterwards how rare it is now to see displays of behaviour like this, as reckless as they may be. If I were to think back to a decade ago, the roads seemed to be filled with people taking risks like this. To stereotype owners of Japanese performance saloons (and I am an Impreza owner myself), there seemed to be loads of Imprezas and Lancer Evolutions indulging in traffic light Grand Prixs. Motorbikes seemed more common, as did lunatic riders. Bikers these days normally seem quite sedate. The young lad in a barried Corsa speeding around multistory car parks at night seem to have been replaced by young girls driving with a phone in their hand. Everyone seems to be going slower. A decade ago it seemed you saw more lunatics than dawdlers, but dawdlers seem to have proliferated whereas hooligans have waned.
Have you noticed this change? What do you think has caused it?
Were all the insane bikers simply on an exponential wave to dying out or becoming disabled through big crashes, leaving only the sensible ones to keep riding? Have s.59 notices really curbed anti social driving that much, coupled with better enforcement on insurance and MOT's (I notice far fewer 'scrapper' type cars around these days)? Has the rising cost of fuel and the proliferation of diesels turned the average motorist into a feckless sort incapable of driving a car to the speed limit?
Or is it just a case of rose tinted glasses, remembering all the lunacy of the old days in one condensed highlight reel of Darwinism in action?
Baryonyx said:
Have you noticed this change? What do you think has caused it?
People can't afford it, have you seen the price of petrol now - too expensive to hoon.On a more serious note is not the availability of track days vs risk of getting caught.
Also the roads are so much more crowded now than they were 10 years ago so in most conditions you would be stupid to drive like that on the public road.
Interesting point actually OP.
From my own perspective, I'd say the cost of petrol has been the biggest change in how and when I drive.
Ten years ago I would go out 'for a drive' and perhaps hoon a bit, or just go to the local 'cruise' and drive around with that lot. I still love to drive now but the price of petrol means I very rarely just go for a drive, every journey has to be justified these days.
I hear cars and bikes racing around my local area at night a few times a week, at least I presume they are racing as they seem to have enough road length to hit the redline in 3-4 gears, so I guess those of us with the disposable cash or the inclination to still hit the road are out there.
From my own perspective, I'd say the cost of petrol has been the biggest change in how and when I drive.
Ten years ago I would go out 'for a drive' and perhaps hoon a bit, or just go to the local 'cruise' and drive around with that lot. I still love to drive now but the price of petrol means I very rarely just go for a drive, every journey has to be justified these days.
I hear cars and bikes racing around my local area at night a few times a week, at least I presume they are racing as they seem to have enough road length to hit the redline in 3-4 gears, so I guess those of us with the disposable cash or the inclination to still hit the road are out there.
Wheelies, kneedown on road, loud pipes, redlining the engine in every gear, two strokes, stoppies, speeding, dark visors, "Power ranger" leathers, they have all been got rid of, stopped by attitudes of "What a antisocial prick" (except with children, but then there are other problems with wheeling past a school in school hours...) fear of losing licence/perhaps life, or that men have become feminised and sanitised, the old ways of living/riding fast and dying young are gone, replaced by ever longer stints of drooling in an armchair, remembering what life was like in the good old days...
As a result, nobody rides a bike for fun anymore, or to release the inner lunatic.
Only to get from A to B, which is sad. (See the rise of learner commuters)
Of course, what must be remembered is life is too short to drive a Prius.
Get a GSX-R 1000. *
As a result, nobody rides a bike for fun anymore, or to release the inner lunatic.
Only to get from A to B, which is sad. (See the rise of learner commuters)
Of course, what must be remembered is life is too short to drive a Prius.
Get a GSX-R 1000. *
- May or may not be a real ad line. If it isn't, it bloody well should.
I think its more to do with the campaign against speeding; I certainly feel like I stand out more if I'm making good progress on bike or car, but particularly on a bike!
Think back 20 years ago, the concept of people going to a country pub, having a few pints and driving home was generally tought of as socially acceptable as long as people were not p i s s e d out their bracket; now it's not.
Ten years ago Bib and Rospa said they wanted to make speeding as socially unacceptable as drink driving; theyre not there yet; but it's close.
I'm not condoning or agreeing/disagreeing with any of those ambitions or social changes; but I think driving styles are changing, and lead foots stand out more!!!
Think back 20 years ago, the concept of people going to a country pub, having a few pints and driving home was generally tought of as socially acceptable as long as people were not p i s s e d out their bracket; now it's not.
Ten years ago Bib and Rospa said they wanted to make speeding as socially unacceptable as drink driving; theyre not there yet; but it's close.
I'm not condoning or agreeing/disagreeing with any of those ambitions or social changes; but I think driving styles are changing, and lead foots stand out more!!!
I don't want to die now... 7/8 years ago, I was fearless and rode flat out in my power-ranger suit everywhere!!
I have the relaxed, upright, dragger jeans approach now and just enjoy the ride.
Perhaps rising costs of everything, vehicles, fuel, insurance, tax are pricing morons out of owning cars and bikes?
I have the relaxed, upright, dragger jeans approach now and just enjoy the ride.
Perhaps rising costs of everything, vehicles, fuel, insurance, tax are pricing morons out of owning cars and bikes?
Loons in cars is easy to explain - there's just too much traffic at the times most people are on the roads. Late at night there's still loads of 'em. Most of the loons tend to be in the young male age bracket so they can't afford to insure anything but the 1l crap boxes that can't outperform even a family hatch.
Bikes are more complicated:
Motorcyclists always manage to be seen more than cars simply due to the ability to pass more easily. If I get on a stretch of single carriageway in the car in rush hour I probably only get 2 people taking notice - the one behind and the one in front. If I do the same on my bike I manage to take advantage of the limited width and massive power to be seen by many, many more.
Never been a loon on the bike, just saying that bikes are more visible.
Biking has been in a decline for years, the only categories that are increasing are the small commuter, the 1l sports and the adventure. The only one likely to be hooned is the 1l+ sports, but given the price they're all weekend warriors who keep it to the back roads.
so tl;dr hoons are priced out of the car market and terrified of bikes.
Bikes are more complicated:
Motorcyclists always manage to be seen more than cars simply due to the ability to pass more easily. If I get on a stretch of single carriageway in the car in rush hour I probably only get 2 people taking notice - the one behind and the one in front. If I do the same on my bike I manage to take advantage of the limited width and massive power to be seen by many, many more.
Never been a loon on the bike, just saying that bikes are more visible.
Biking has been in a decline for years, the only categories that are increasing are the small commuter, the 1l sports and the adventure. The only one likely to be hooned is the 1l+ sports, but given the price they're all weekend warriors who keep it to the back roads.
so tl;dr hoons are priced out of the car market and terrified of bikes.
I still notice now that when I go to bed at night I can hear the A1 which is about a 1/2 a mile from my house. You can still hear cars and bikes being redlined down it every night, often in convoy with the pitch of the noise rising and falling as the cars pass.
I think perhaps the easily availability of considerable speed has put some drivers off too. A few years ago when you could buy a cheap XR2 and it was still considered a 'performance bargain' you might be apt to blast it round the country lanes. Body rolling, tyres screeching etc etc. Now, you could get in a Focus ST and find it just gathers speed so quickly it's too risky to push on in, and that it's not particularly challenged on most roads at NSL. If there is only risk and no reward, perhaps many people don't fancy carrying pace.
Much like the oft-asked question of "why do you never see fast cars being driven fast?", I suspect many people are happy to be able to say they own a fast car but have no intention or inclination to drive it quickly (or well).
I think perhaps the easily availability of considerable speed has put some drivers off too. A few years ago when you could buy a cheap XR2 and it was still considered a 'performance bargain' you might be apt to blast it round the country lanes. Body rolling, tyres screeching etc etc. Now, you could get in a Focus ST and find it just gathers speed so quickly it's too risky to push on in, and that it's not particularly challenged on most roads at NSL. If there is only risk and no reward, perhaps many people don't fancy carrying pace.
Much like the oft-asked question of "why do you never see fast cars being driven fast?", I suspect many people are happy to be able to say they own a fast car but have no intention or inclination to drive it quickly (or well).
I think the roads are probably slower than they were 10 or 15 years ago, not that I was driving at the time, but no less dangerous. More and more driving aids, and the heavy enforcement of the government's baffling "driving safety" directive has created more shambling "zombie drivers" who think that they don't need to pay attention, because as long as they are not speeding, they are not in danger, or presenting a danger to anyone else.
Three times now in as many weeks I have been stuck behind motorbikes!!!!
On each occasion traveling below the NSL.
They didn't strike me as new bikers just bikers dawdling along.
I did find myself mulling over just how much times have changed.
I shall always have a fond memory of when I first bought the Griff nearly 20 years ago and a pair of 600s pulling up alongside at the lights of a duel carriage way. Lights changed, I floored it, absolutely wasted the bikers, was just in the middle of a believing I was a god and then ......... One of the bikes flew past on one wheel and giving the bird.
You just don't get that level of class these days.
On each occasion traveling below the NSL.
They didn't strike me as new bikers just bikers dawdling along.
I did find myself mulling over just how much times have changed.
I shall always have a fond memory of when I first bought the Griff nearly 20 years ago and a pair of 600s pulling up alongside at the lights of a duel carriage way. Lights changed, I floored it, absolutely wasted the bikers, was just in the middle of a believing I was a god and then ......... One of the bikes flew past on one wheel and giving the bird.
You just don't get that level of class these days.
DaveH23 said:
Baryonyx said:
Have you noticed this change? What do you think has caused it?
People can't afford it, have you seen the price of petrol now - too expensive to hoon.On a more serious note is not the availability of track days vs risk of getting caught.
Also the roads are so much more crowded now than they were 10 years ago so in most conditions you would be stupid to drive like that on the public road.
Hardly ever see any performance cars on the road down where I live let alone people actually opening them up. Whereas it used to be a common site.
My theory is that it was actually all on credit - then the credit ran out!
Eighteeteewhy said:
When I was younger, many moons ago I used to go out actively looking for races and usually finding some. I wonder if this still happens?
Saying that I was 18 with a 309 GTI, I guess young uns can't even get insured on that sort of thing any more let alone afford fuel/run them.
Can they even get insured on anything? Is everyone keen to get their license as soon as they hit 17 these days? I wonder perhaps there's less loons about since there are, well, less 'loons' (doric for 'lad') on our roads?Saying that I was 18 with a 309 GTI, I guess young uns can't even get insured on that sort of thing any more let alone afford fuel/run them.
The most significant change is the result of fourteen years of Labour Speed Kills brainwashing.
Those inept control freaks have created a nation of nervous drivers, few of whom have the confidence to overtake, but sit with their bonnets up the arse of the vehicle in front, thus causing huge queues.
It used to go unnoticed when you executed a perfect overtake. Now it is greeted with horn blowing, light flashing, looks of horror, general arm flappery and filling of underwear with unmentionable liquids.
Blair, Brown and the Department for Transport have much to answer for.
Those inept control freaks have created a nation of nervous drivers, few of whom have the confidence to overtake, but sit with their bonnets up the arse of the vehicle in front, thus causing huge queues.
It used to go unnoticed when you executed a perfect overtake. Now it is greeted with horn blowing, light flashing, looks of horror, general arm flappery and filling of underwear with unmentionable liquids.
Blair, Brown and the Department for Transport have much to answer for.
Statistically it would seem that the amount of people getting a license has been in decline. Cost of running a car/bike is getting more and more expensive particulary for a bike with the newer license it's allot of money and effort to get a license in addition to having already shelled out to learn how to drive.
Allot of people I know (including me) have switched pretty much to track day riding, I got knocked off mine one too many times through no fault of my own for road riding to be enjoyable anymore.
Allot of people I know (including me) have switched pretty much to track day riding, I got knocked off mine one too many times through no fault of my own for road riding to be enjoyable anymore.
Increase in size of cars doesnt help. 15 years ago I had a cinquecento sporting and blasted it around the local lanes, wringing its neck. It was fun and you could tuck in easily if a car came the other way. Driving a modern car, most of which are 6 feet wide, they are just too big to do the blasting down the lanes thing in any safety.
Speed cameras, cost of petrol, insurance, density of traffic on roads, yep its all added up to kill off the boy racers.
Speed cameras, cost of petrol, insurance, density of traffic on roads, yep its all added up to kill off the boy racers.
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