Head vs Heart - Man maths
Discussion
Man maths required for these questions.
Anyone gone from a sensible, youngish car, that's still under manufacturer's warranty, with reasonable running costs etc to a 10 -15 year old performance car, with known higher running costs and likely age and mileage related hidden expenses, and not regretted it?
Have you sold something like a 520/320d, C Class and bought a 'well looked after' E39 M5, E46 M3, an SLK55, or 996, that's 10-15 years old and successfully justified it over time?
Have you traded modern electrics, gadgets and reliability for a dated 'lived in' interior, no frills stereo, sighed relief when you start it on a cold morning with no weird warning lights, and still feel its worth it?
My head says it's madness but my heart is telling me that we only live once, so how is it done?
Anyone gone from a sensible, youngish car, that's still under manufacturer's warranty, with reasonable running costs etc to a 10 -15 year old performance car, with known higher running costs and likely age and mileage related hidden expenses, and not regretted it?
Have you sold something like a 520/320d, C Class and bought a 'well looked after' E39 M5, E46 M3, an SLK55, or 996, that's 10-15 years old and successfully justified it over time?
Have you traded modern electrics, gadgets and reliability for a dated 'lived in' interior, no frills stereo, sighed relief when you start it on a cold morning with no weird warning lights, and still feel its worth it?
My head says it's madness but my heart is telling me that we only live once, so how is it done?
Understand that man maths was developed solely for the purpose of convincing the womenfolk that a leggy M5 is a sound financial investment, and that you are only purchasing one in order to reduce the financial burden that comes with frunning a new car; it's actually an altruistic act.
If there is no other half, spend away.
If there is no other half, spend away.
Head says a 60-80K car that's now 8-15K is priced like that for a reason though. Even if you could afford it, do you willingly take on a money pit and still say its worth it?
I suppose with these austerity measured times, I find that where I would have just said to hell with it a few years ago, now it seems all 'frivolities' have to be extra justified with advanced man maths. Doctorate level even.
I suppose with these austerity measured times, I find that where I would have just said to hell with it a few years ago, now it seems all 'frivolities' have to be extra justified with advanced man maths. Doctorate level even.
Went from a nearly-new Mk3 Golf GTi to a Mk1 Golf GTi. Best thing I ever did, motoring-wise, although that was more a reflection of the fact that the Mk3 Golf was a pale imitation of it's former glory. (Lost a shed-load of money on that Mk3, but then lost a shed-load more on the Mk1 when it was nicked!)
Went from a 14-year-old Mk2 Golf GTi to an 18-year-old 944, but these probably both count as 'Old' in your reckoning.
Oli.
Went from a 14-year-old Mk2 Golf GTi to an 18-year-old 944, but these probably both count as 'Old' in your reckoning.
Oli.
zcacogp said:
Went from a nearly-new Mk3 Golf GTi to a Mk1 Golf GTi. Best thing I ever did, motoring-wise, although that was more a reflection of the fact that the Mk3 Golf was a pale imitation of it's former glory. (Lost a shed-load of money on that Mk3, but then lost a shed-load more on the Mk1 when it was nicked!)
Went from a 14-year-old Mk2 Golf GTi to an 18-year-old 944, but these probably both count as 'Old' in your reckoning.
Oli.
I would say its similar reckoning in that you went and added age and cc's. Went from a 14-year-old Mk2 Golf GTi to an 18-year-old 944, but these probably both count as 'Old' in your reckoning.
Oli.
In 1994, I sold my Scirocco and bought a 9 year old Corvette C4. The idea terrified me - a 5.7 V8 sports car that erupted into a cacophony of sound that mimicked a squadron of Lancasters droning over your shoulder. Auto box, no UK dealers, on my own.
It wasn't even in great condition with cracked paint over the rear arches but I bought it, ran it for 3 years as my daily and bloody loved it - coupe, targa, rocket ship, cruiser, it had it all - and have stuck with Yanks ever since.
It wasn't even in great condition with cracked paint over the rear arches but I bought it, ran it for 3 years as my daily and bloody loved it - coupe, targa, rocket ship, cruiser, it had it all - and have stuck with Yanks ever since.
Surely the depreciation/lease on any mainstream "executive car" that's youngish (i.e. under warranty) is going to outweigh the running costs of something old and more interesting?
Obvious caveats are that you are not doing 50k a year in it, and that you buy something interesting but not *too* interesting... (unless you buy unwisely or are very unlucky)
Obvious caveats are that you are not doing 50k a year in it, and that you buy something interesting but not *too* interesting... (unless you buy unwisely or are very unlucky)
In 2002/3 I ran a 1983 Gigario Lotus Turbo Esprit. 20mpg sucked, but other than that it was cracking.
I worked on it a bit in my spare time, nothing major just tidying up. Eventually I sold it for £1K more than I paid for it, which covered running costs (tyres, parts, tax). So a year in that motor cost me petrol and insurance.
As it was a classic, I'm over 25 and I kept mileage below 8000, insurance was just £230.
So it's not just man maths, you can make it work with regular maths too.
I worked on it a bit in my spare time, nothing major just tidying up. Eventually I sold it for £1K more than I paid for it, which covered running costs (tyres, parts, tax). So a year in that motor cost me petrol and insurance.
As it was a classic, I'm over 25 and I kept mileage below 8000, insurance was just £230.
So it's not just man maths, you can make it work with regular maths too.
I got rid of a 3 year old AX GT to get a slightly older CRX. Since then I've had better and better cars that were older and older. Current fleet is a 20 year old MX5 turbo (broken waiting for me to fit the £20 part that turned up yesterday) and a 15 year old Elise which is the best car I've ever owned, and it currently my daily driver.
I could sell them both and get a new Fiesta with the money, but I'd have to be an idiot.
I could sell them both and get a new Fiesta with the money, but I'd have to be an idiot.
I sold my couple of year old 330d and replaced with with an old C43 AMG. In hindsight I should have kept the 330d but it brings a smile to my face knowing that I had the balls to go for it.
I would say do it, do it, do it. I've tried the happy compromise and that's worse than trying both extremes.
I would say do it, do it, do it. I've tried the happy compromise and that's worse than trying both extremes.
LuS1fer said:
In 1994, I sold my Scirocco and bought a 9 year old Corvette C4. The idea terrified me - a 5.7 V8 sports car that erupted into a cacophony of sound that mimicked a squadron of Lancasters droning over your shoulder. Auto box, no UK dealers, on my own.
It wasn't even in great condition with cracked paint over the rear arches but I bought it, ran it for 3 years as my daily and bloody loved it - coupe, targa, rocket ship, cruiser, it had it all - and have stuck with Yanks ever since.
Its great that you used the words 'terrified me' in your description as so far most have implied that they acted without a second thought.It wasn't even in great condition with cracked paint over the rear arches but I bought it, ran it for 3 years as my daily and bloody loved it - coupe, targa, rocket ship, cruiser, it had it all - and have stuck with Yanks ever since.
Danp, you mentioned buying 'unwisely', what would you say is buying wisely in the head vs heart debate?
I think these days, the internet offers far more support and takes away a lot of risk. In 1994, all I had to rely on was American UK spares outlets and ultimately, Tom Falconer at Claremont Corvette. The purchase was largely a shot in the dark based on what I knew about normal cars. I looked at and rejected a Porsche 928 as that went outside my risk/comfort zone if it went wrong as "Porsche" and "small bills" don't ofen go together.
Any car involves some risk. My Corvette's digital dash packed in and I had a misfire I couldn't identify. the car had to go to a UK Corvette specialist who put in a used digital dash and fitted new handbrake cables but the misfire they singularly failed on. Claremont Corvette eventually solved that issue (just an O2 sensor).
It's worth saying that the internet would now take away some of my terror as it offers vastly more support by way of specialist forums and especially with Yank cars, there is an encyclopeadia of articles out there for the DIY man and a number of specialists when you can't find the answer.
Any car involves some risk. My Corvette's digital dash packed in and I had a misfire I couldn't identify. the car had to go to a UK Corvette specialist who put in a used digital dash and fitted new handbrake cables but the misfire they singularly failed on. Claremont Corvette eventually solved that issue (just an O2 sensor).
It's worth saying that the internet would now take away some of my terror as it offers vastly more support by way of specialist forums and especially with Yank cars, there is an encyclopeadia of articles out there for the DIY man and a number of specialists when you can't find the answer.
SSBB said:
Understand that man maths was developed solely for the purpose of convincing the womenfolk that a leggy M5 is a sound financial investment, and that you are only purchasing one in order to reduce the financial burden that comes with frunning a new car; it's actually an altruistic act.
If there is no other half, spend away.
I like the depreciation angle, any other tips in getting the significantly older, faster and potentially less reliable car past the other half?If there is no other half, spend away.
We've all been there some point in our lives... sold a car with new tyres, nearly 2 years till first MOT, low mileage, ultra reliable and years left on warranty for a performance car which is the total opposite! Been few rough patches here and there but being a petrolhead there's always a silver lining...
Sold a sensible very low mileage newish 330d and replaced with with an older higher mileage v8 s4 that doesn't handle as well and does half the mpg - but I just HAD to have a V8 before they're outlawed - and it's been great. It always knawed away at me with the BMW that I'd taken the safe option, and it was, on paper a fabulous car - just didn't stir my soul - which the Audi does.
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