Looked at 2 996's yesterday...
Discussion
I went to look at a couple of 996's yesterday, one of them was very nice except two corners of the sunroof didn't sit down properly, only raised a few mm but it was quite noticeable. Is this normal as I haven't noticed it on any of the others so far? He said it didn't leak and it probably doesn't.
This was also the first manual I've encountered. Would a manual be more sought after in the future when it comes time to sell it, do they hold their price better or not?
Cheers
This was also the first manual I've encountered. Would a manual be more sought after in the future when it comes time to sell it, do they hold their price better or not?
Cheers
CHN said:
I went to look at a couple of 996's yesterday, one of them was very nice except two corners of the sunroof didn't sit down properly, only raised a few mm but it was quite noticeable. Is this normal as I haven't noticed it on any of the others so far? He said it didn't leak and it probably doesn't.
This was also the first manual I've encountered. Would a manual be more sought after in the future when it comes time to sell it, do they hold their price better or not?
Cheers
On the second part, its hard to say, history would say manuals hold better, but autos are becoming the norm now and in 10 years there will be hoards of people who have never driven a manual.This was also the first manual I've encountered. Would a manual be more sought after in the future when it comes time to sell it, do they hold their price better or not?
Cheers
My gut feeling is that it wont make a great deal of difference on a 996 so get what you want.
MTR
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Edited by mollytherocker on Thursday 12th July 11:31
CHN said:
Would a manual be more sought after in the future when it comes time to sell it,
Yes.CHN said:
do they hold their price better or not?Cheers
Yes.They have done ever since 996's entered the used market. No reason why that should change.
On the other side of the coin, tiptronics (auto) are cheaper for you to buy.
That said, give the prices of 996's now, the % difference won't actualy equate to that much - probably less than £1k - and so you should just buy whatever you prefer driving. (which is unlikely to be the tip, but who know what you prefer? only you.)
monthefish said:
mollytherocker said:
but autos are becoming the norm now and in 10 years there will be hoards of people who have never driven a manual.
If that's the case, that will probably make the manuals even more sought after in my opinion.We are nearing the end of the manual gearbox (sob) as more and more control is removed from the driver and an increasing amount of control systems replace human decisions.
MTR
My observations (although not the authority on this subject !):
968 & 944 - Manuals hugely more desirable with a huge difference in values
993 & 964 - Manuals much more desirable with a big difference in values
996 - Manuals more desirable and quite a difference in values
997 - Makes very little difference
As the automatic/tiptronic technology has improved over the years so has the desirability. I personally prefer driving 997 tiptronics to manuals but prefer the manual versions of the earlier cars. Every time I study the 996/993 market prices I find the cheapest batch of cars are predominantly tiptronics (and cabriolets for that matter) and the more expensive ones (which I regard as the "proper" market price) are dominated by manual cars.
Grant
968 & 944 - Manuals hugely more desirable with a huge difference in values
993 & 964 - Manuals much more desirable with a big difference in values
996 - Manuals more desirable and quite a difference in values
997 - Makes very little difference
As the automatic/tiptronic technology has improved over the years so has the desirability. I personally prefer driving 997 tiptronics to manuals but prefer the manual versions of the earlier cars. Every time I study the 996/993 market prices I find the cheapest batch of cars are predominantly tiptronics (and cabriolets for that matter) and the more expensive ones (which I regard as the "proper" market price) are dominated by manual cars.
Grant
Just to add to the above, when I was looking for a 996 last autumn I didn't notice much difference (if any) in dealer prices between manual and tip. I spoke to one well respected London based dealer and he reckoned there was a similar market for both and priced them exactly the same. So may be a regional thing with lots of city based owners and M25 cruisers preferring tips. Definitely agree on older cars (993 and earlier) being much preferred in manual.
When nearly new autos are always worth more, as they are evaluated "against list price", as they age this levels off then the balance turns in favour of the manual, as the buyer of the older car is more likely to be buying for pleasure use and some of that pleasure is derived from pushing the extra pedal and moving the lever back and forth. As technology improves the premium for a manual on those models will reduce, so I expect PDK values will never drop below manual values, but earlier cars with older technology will always shows their shortcomings - e.g. a 993 has a 6 speed manual box or 4 speed auto, on a 996 it's 6 and 5 so not so bad (combined with cleverer software etc).
On a 996 I'd say decide which you prefer and find the best car you can, or if you don't care then don't let it become part of your decision making process at all, when time comes to move it on things like colour and condition will matter far far more.
On a 996 I'd say decide which you prefer and find the best car you can, or if you don't care then don't let it become part of your decision making process at all, when time comes to move it on things like colour and condition will matter far far more.
monthefish said:
Simple test.
Go to PH classfieds, 996 carrera's, sort by price low to high.
You'll notice that there is a disproportionate number of tips to manuals (and most of the manuals that are at the bottom end are sold)
The disproportionate ratio of tips to manuals MAY (dont know) be the result of them selling more tips that manuals in the first place?Go to PH classfieds, 996 carrera's, sort by price low to high.
You'll notice that there is a disproportionate number of tips to manuals (and most of the manuals that are at the bottom end are sold)
Prof Beard said:
monthefish said:
Simple test.
Go to PH classfieds, 996 carrera's, sort by price low to high.
You'll notice that there is a disproportionate number of tips to manuals (and most of the manuals that are at the bottom end are sold)
The disproportionate ratio of tips to manuals MAY (dont know) be the result of them selling more tips that manuals in the first place?Go to PH classfieds, 996 carrera's, sort by price low to high.
You'll notice that there is a disproportionate number of tips to manuals (and most of the manuals that are at the bottom end are sold)
monthefish said:
If that were the case (I'm pretty sure its not), then the ratio would be roughly the same throughout the differing price points.
That's a different issue - it is entirely possibly/likely that manuals are selling for more - but the fact that there are more tips for sale than manuals doesn't necessarily imply people are "getting rid of them" unless the number of tips for sale IS disproportionate to the production figures ( as I said, I don't know)Prof Beard said:
monthefish said:
If that were the case (I'm pretty sure its not), then the ratio would be roughly the same throughout the differing price points.
That's a different issue - it is entirely possibly/likely that manuals are selling for more - but the fact that there are more tips for sale than manuals doesn't necessarily imply people are "getting rid of them" unless the number of tips for sale IS disproportionate to the production figures ( as I said, I don't know)i.e. two cars, identical in every respect except the transmission, the market (not just me) values the tiptronic less.
This explains proportionally more tips at the bottom of the market.
monthefish said:
No, I'm not saying there's more tips for sale than manuals in total. I'm saying that, at the bottom end of the market there is a (far) higher ratio of tips to manuals, than there is further up the price ladder, which a price reduction for a tiptronic would explain.
i.e. two cars, identical in every respect except the transmission, the market (not just me) values the tiptronic less.
This explains proportionally more tips at the bottom of the market.
Do the tips at the bottom end tend to have higher mileage than the manuals? Could be another reason for the price differential. All I know is that I researched prices extensively before I bought one (a manual) and there wasn't much in it at the top end of the 996 market. For example RSJ have 2 996 C4S tips both priced at £24K. They don't currently have an equivalent manual for sale, but I know if they did it would be the same price.i.e. two cars, identical in every respect except the transmission, the market (not just me) values the tiptronic less.
This explains proportionally more tips at the bottom of the market.
Buy the box that you actually prefer and don't worry about resale. I don't think it matters as much as some people think. I would imagine there is more of a manual bias among PHers, but not so much in the outside world.
Made an offer on the manual now, it was the better looking car and far nicer inside, but offer is based on getting a couple of bits sorted out. I'd prefer the manual, though the tip has its advantages
We should receive the call tomorrow as to whether he'll accept the offer or not.
Fingers crossed.
We should receive the call tomorrow as to whether he'll accept the offer or not.
Fingers crossed.
Edited by CHN on Thursday 12th July 20:38
CHN, a question if I may.
Manual vs Tip (and PDK) is a common topic on here and it brings out some extreme views on both sides. Usually pretty heated.
I can understand why some people come down on the side of auto gearboxes, or I try to.
What does confuse me though is when people say they are happy with either.
Care to expand your views on the matter?
MTR
Manual vs Tip (and PDK) is a common topic on here and it brings out some extreme views on both sides. Usually pretty heated.
I can understand why some people come down on the side of auto gearboxes, or I try to.
What does confuse me though is when people say they are happy with either.
Care to expand your views on the matter?
MTR
mollytherocker said:
CHN, a question if I may.
Manual vs Tip (and PDK) is a common topic on here and it brings out some extreme views on both sides. Usually pretty heated.
I can understand why some people come down on the side of auto gearboxes, or I try to.
What does confuse me though is when people say they are happy with either.
Care to expand your views on the matter?
MTR
Not really much of an insight but I've had both manual and auto's over the last couple of years and whilst I prefer the input and interaction with a manual, I'm also well aware that for 99% of my driving the autobox really is the better option (IMO). I'll be driving this occassionally, the wife will be driving it up and down the motorway. She's not one for pushing a car, we had a Lotus Elise and when visiting the family she would much prefer to bomb up the motorway for 20 minutes when there was a lovely little route through the Wye Valley. It drove me nuts.Manual vs Tip (and PDK) is a common topic on here and it brings out some extreme views on both sides. Usually pretty heated.
I can understand why some people come down on the side of auto gearboxes, or I try to.
What does confuse me though is when people say they are happy with either.
Care to expand your views on the matter?
MTR
Realistically, we should have a tip (for her), when I have it I'll be taking it out for a quick blast and will prefer the manual, but I'm easy either way as the M option on the tip is supposed to be quite good.
mollytherocker said:
What does confuse me though is when people say they are happy with either.
MTR
I'm quite indifferent with manual / autos too - to be honest I don't H&T or use the car on a track...my driving is quite mixed, so each has their advantanges & disadvantages.MTR
The only time I do prefer manuals is when the engine size of a car is less than 3L - I drove a 2.0 GTI with DSG and I hated it...
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