Non starting strangeness and pics
Discussion
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picked this up yesterday, as mentioned in another post , drove home, very low fuel, tried to start car again half an hour later , nothing the fuel pump whirred but moving the ignition on to the last step did nothing at all, starter motor didn't turn etc. Thought maybe as no/little fuel so went to pertol station, stuck a gallon in and brum!. Put in garge overnight started first thing, drove to petrol station filled up...and nothing, same thing! pushed it into parking space and my mechanic mate turned up. we connected the ECU reader it showed code 12 < Air flow meter fault. car had been sat 30 minutes not running and repeatably doing the same thing ignition kicking in fuel pump . mate popped bonnet removed air flow meter sensor and re connected.... brum fired up straight away. ran it ,stopped it fired up, same again long run off, on no problem. ECU still showing 12 code. disconnected ECU cleared code and MIL light gone off the dash car fine all day. car has hot start mod also .... wierd. mate wonders if dodgy connection on starter motor... any other ideas ?
having said that ,,,, its bloody awesome !! I have been driving round with a stupid grin all day long, what a noise!
easiest just to replace it yeh, quite a few people have fitted an stubbier and cheapish one from 'brooklands', I fitted a PowerLite RAC318, Got it at show price so was considerably cheaper than normal which is a crazy price! not had a problem since and draws a lot less current so is handy if the batt starts getting low.
Robert Lees said:
Does sound like it , but car has mod wise hot start bypass lit fitted. Although nothing to say that not buggered. May just get hi torq starter and be done.
Robert, the ModWise hot start kit really just masks an inherent fault.While the ModWise hot start kit can help in some cases it's actually only delaying the inevitable complete failure of the immobiliser relay that controls the live feed to the starter solenoid.
The ModWise kit can't undo the existing damage already on the faces of the contact points within the immobiliser relay.
I have sent you a PM with some tips that helped me solve my Chimaera starting problems for good.
Hope they help, Dave.
Hot start issues always raise a number of practical answers from forumites. Most are probably well founded in experience. Personally I have not found an immobiliser relay issue but others may have.
My experience leads me to think that:-
a) the starter lives in a hostile environment.
b) the hot issue only occurs when the vehicle is stationary and no air flow is present.
c) if you are lucky and can re-fuel in a few minutes you will probably not suffer but if you are delayed longer then the heat from the engine and exhaust heat soaks the starter and wiring. Typically a stationary period of 10 to 20 minutes will cook the starter nicely.
d) The Modwise kit helps but masks the gradual degrading starter for a while.
e) Eventually the starter is knackered and even the modwise kit will not overcome the problem (in my case the fuse in the kit kept blowing)
f) the only answer is to replace the starter, or if you are handy with a spanner take the old one off and overhaul it. (lots of advice on here)
I replaced mine with a new one a year ago and no problems since (kiss of death).
My experience leads me to think that:-
a) the starter lives in a hostile environment.
b) the hot issue only occurs when the vehicle is stationary and no air flow is present.
c) if you are lucky and can re-fuel in a few minutes you will probably not suffer but if you are delayed longer then the heat from the engine and exhaust heat soaks the starter and wiring. Typically a stationary period of 10 to 20 minutes will cook the starter nicely.
d) The Modwise kit helps but masks the gradual degrading starter for a while.
e) Eventually the starter is knackered and even the modwise kit will not overcome the problem (in my case the fuse in the kit kept blowing)
f) the only answer is to replace the starter, or if you are handy with a spanner take the old one off and overhaul it. (lots of advice on here)
I replaced mine with a new one a year ago and no problems since (kiss of death).
Thats the thing, fired car up 8am Sunday, drove 1/2 mile max to petrol station and filled up.must only have been 5 mins max between ignition off to try starting again. Having car serviced / mot'd today and new hi torq starter on order for them to fit so hopefully all will be good...then it can stop raining :-D
Along with the hard life the stater motor gets there are two main issues with the starter wiring on these cars.
They are two distinctly different issues, but both typically happen on re-start when the car is hot so both get called the "Hot Start" problem.
Each requires a different resolution.
ISSUE 1 IMMOBILISER RELAY:
This gives the following symptom - Disengage the immobiliser, turn the key to the start position and nothing, not even the faintest click from the solenoid
This is most likely an immobiliser fault or more specifically the failure of a relay inside the Meta unit.
You can prove this (like I did) by putting a test meter on the starter solenoid feed wire with the immobiliser disengaged and the key in the start position.
In my case there was a solid feed from the ignition switch, but zero current exiting the immobiliser on the starter solenoid side.
The problem had to be inside the Meta immobiliser unit.
The hot start kit is just a relay that masks the fact that the immobiliser relay TVR originally used to energise the starter motor solenoid is inadequate.
This immobiliser relay often starts to show it's on the way out when the car gets hot, that's because the resistance in the entire system goes up dramatically when it gets hot.
To solve my problem permanently I bypassed Meta immobiliser on the ignition circuit only and added a relay back in to protect the ignition switch, this completely solved my immobiliser related starting issues.
ISSUE 2 STARTER CABLE & EARTH:
This gives the following symptom - Disengage the immobiliser and turn the key to the start position, the car fails to start but you hear a faint click from the starter solenoid
This typically happens on a hot restart, say after filling up with fuel on a hot day.
Once you have fully tested your starter motor & it's solenoid, the solution in my opinion is to upgrade the feeble and very long starter cable with better quality higher amperage battery cable.
http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Further improvements can be obtained by upgrading the earth path, a short lead from the battery negative terminal direct to the engine block should be all it needs.
So in addition to the classic dead stater motor, there are two key faults each requiring a different approach.
Of cause you could have all the issues like I did
They are two distinctly different issues, but both typically happen on re-start when the car is hot so both get called the "Hot Start" problem.
Each requires a different resolution.
ISSUE 1 IMMOBILISER RELAY:
This gives the following symptom - Disengage the immobiliser, turn the key to the start position and nothing, not even the faintest click from the solenoid
This is most likely an immobiliser fault or more specifically the failure of a relay inside the Meta unit.
You can prove this (like I did) by putting a test meter on the starter solenoid feed wire with the immobiliser disengaged and the key in the start position.
In my case there was a solid feed from the ignition switch, but zero current exiting the immobiliser on the starter solenoid side.
The problem had to be inside the Meta immobiliser unit.
The hot start kit is just a relay that masks the fact that the immobiliser relay TVR originally used to energise the starter motor solenoid is inadequate.
This immobiliser relay often starts to show it's on the way out when the car gets hot, that's because the resistance in the entire system goes up dramatically when it gets hot.
To solve my problem permanently I bypassed Meta immobiliser on the ignition circuit only and added a relay back in to protect the ignition switch, this completely solved my immobiliser related starting issues.
ISSUE 2 STARTER CABLE & EARTH:
This gives the following symptom - Disengage the immobiliser and turn the key to the start position, the car fails to start but you hear a faint click from the starter solenoid
This typically happens on a hot restart, say after filling up with fuel on a hot day.
Once you have fully tested your starter motor & it's solenoid, the solution in my opinion is to upgrade the feeble and very long starter cable with better quality higher amperage battery cable.
http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Further improvements can be obtained by upgrading the earth path, a short lead from the battery negative terminal direct to the engine block should be all it needs.
So in addition to the classic dead stater motor, there are two key faults each requiring a different approach.
Of cause you could have all the issues like I did
Top post ChimpofDarkness.
Mine was the wire to the solenoid 2 years ago. I took the opportunity to use the feed from the immobiliser to trigger a start relay while I was upgrading the starter solenoid wire. The relay takes the power direct from the battery instead of the immobiliser.
Should hopefully make the immobiliser last longer.
Mine was the wire to the solenoid 2 years ago. I took the opportunity to use the feed from the immobiliser to trigger a start relay while I was upgrading the starter solenoid wire. The relay takes the power direct from the battery instead of the immobiliser.
Should hopefully make the immobiliser last longer.
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