We have to save the BTCC!
Discussion
OK, the current series is OK. Produces quite entertaining races and quite big crowds - though not as big as they have been. However, the standard of driving has come into question of late, and I don't care what you say, more works teams would be better.
Now, everyone insists that the period of motorsport that they grew up with is the best, and as a child of the 90s, naturally, Super Tourers are king for me. Despite the obvious cost issues. I was watching a review of some mid 1990s BTCC - 'the best in the world' according to the participants, and between 1994-1997 there were works entries from:
Alfa Romeo
Renault
Audi
Ford
Vauxhall
BMW
Nissan
Volvo
Toyota
Peugeot
Honda
amongst others I cannot remember off the top of my head. Drivers included names like Rydell, Menu, Radisich and Ravaglia (now WTCC drivers or WOrld Cup winners at the time) and also Jo Winklehock and Frank Beila, who went on to win Le Mans. Former F1 drivers like Morbidelli, Mansell and Tarquini took part with varying degrees of success.
What is needed is better quality drivers, attracted by a larger pool of works entries, which will boost popularity and crowds, and hopefully be more entertaining.
I propose:
1). You can have any engine you like - with a block based on your road engine. If you make a more powerful motor, why should you not be allowed to benefit.
2). However, to provide some sort of equality, cars such as your Focus', Civic and MG6 can be lighter than the likes of your 3 series etc.
3). Things like traction control and stability control etc are permitted, but MUST be taken from the road car and not be bespoke. This will either benefit costs or ensure that the benefits are paid forward to road users.
I am sure that I am grotesquely wrong, or missing out many important factors. But debate will improve the breed.
So, Pistonheads, we have to save British Touring Cars!
Now, everyone insists that the period of motorsport that they grew up with is the best, and as a child of the 90s, naturally, Super Tourers are king for me. Despite the obvious cost issues. I was watching a review of some mid 1990s BTCC - 'the best in the world' according to the participants, and between 1994-1997 there were works entries from:
Alfa Romeo
Renault
Audi
Ford
Vauxhall
BMW
Nissan
Volvo
Toyota
Peugeot
Honda
amongst others I cannot remember off the top of my head. Drivers included names like Rydell, Menu, Radisich and Ravaglia (now WTCC drivers or WOrld Cup winners at the time) and also Jo Winklehock and Frank Beila, who went on to win Le Mans. Former F1 drivers like Morbidelli, Mansell and Tarquini took part with varying degrees of success.
What is needed is better quality drivers, attracted by a larger pool of works entries, which will boost popularity and crowds, and hopefully be more entertaining.
I propose:
1). You can have any engine you like - with a block based on your road engine. If you make a more powerful motor, why should you not be allowed to benefit.
2). However, to provide some sort of equality, cars such as your Focus', Civic and MG6 can be lighter than the likes of your 3 series etc.
3). Things like traction control and stability control etc are permitted, but MUST be taken from the road car and not be bespoke. This will either benefit costs or ensure that the benefits are paid forward to road users.
I am sure that I am grotesquely wrong, or missing out many important factors. But debate will improve the breed.
So, Pistonheads, we have to save British Touring Cars!
munizcvw said:
Whitefly Swatter said:
I dont think the driving standards have changed much from the John Cleland era!
Yeah,also me. "An agressive 'never-say-die' racer who was often outspoken off the track, but exciting to watch on it. A great sportsman and ambasador for the sport of SuperTouring racing. " on http://www.supertouring.co.uk/drivers/john_cleland...
The problem for any series with 10 manufactures is that at the end of the year there is only one winner.
Even if the dream of a number of them coming back in were realised the curve would look a lot like it did in the supertourers era. A few, lots, lots and lots, a few, one or two.
It is one thing if a few parts and knowhow go out the back door to a private team with the works blessing, another thing for the manufacturer to really dip into their pocket and plaster their name all over the car.
Even if the dream of a number of them coming back in were realised the curve would look a lot like it did in the supertourers era. A few, lots, lots and lots, a few, one or two.
It is one thing if a few parts and knowhow go out the back door to a private team with the works blessing, another thing for the manufacturer to really dip into their pocket and plaster their name all over the car.
To get the big name drivers back, the current WTCC would have to die (which it looks like it is). If you cast your mind back to the mid 90's (which is my era also, there was no WTCC. The big name drivers used to rotate betweenthe various national championships e.g. Tarquinin and Alfa Romeo had won the Italian chmpionship in 1093, before dominating the BTCC in 1994. A simialar situation with Frank Biela and Audi in 1996.
I think the inherent problem is, that motorsport (cars and the regulations governing them) is constantly evolving to keep the spectator interested. This means that a well intentioned set of rules designed to regin in cost etc, eventulally evolves year on year until it becomes as unworkable and expensive as the rules it originally placed.
Your idea above, whilst it has merits, would ultimately lead to the same situation.
I dont believe that there is any kind of cure-all solution, i think we have to resign ourselves to the fact that various types of motorsport will go through these peaks and troughs. At the moment GT racing and F1 are doing well...............Touring cars and Rallying are not.
I think the inherent problem is, that motorsport (cars and the regulations governing them) is constantly evolving to keep the spectator interested. This means that a well intentioned set of rules designed to regin in cost etc, eventulally evolves year on year until it becomes as unworkable and expensive as the rules it originally placed.
Your idea above, whilst it has merits, would ultimately lead to the same situation.
I dont believe that there is any kind of cure-all solution, i think we have to resign ourselves to the fact that various types of motorsport will go through these peaks and troughs. At the moment GT racing and F1 are doing well...............Touring cars and Rallying are not.
EDLT said:
The OP is a moron and clearly doesn't watch the BTCC.
Biggest live audiences since the 90's
Biggest grids since they dropped the multi-class races
Best TV coverage ever
But no, what we need to do is save it by bankrupting everyone involved
I'm not sure if I would quite have put so bluntly Biggest live audiences since the 90's
Biggest grids since they dropped the multi-class races
Best TV coverage ever
But no, what we need to do is save it by bankrupting everyone involved
but essentially EDLT is correct.BTCC does seem to be getting more respected as a series now. If only they could replace the current crop of out and out pay drivers and it would then be something to behold. Until then, I'll stick with Aussie V8s and Super GTs (OK, plus the occasional appearance at a BTCC event 
)
Free-reign over budgets is definitely NOT what is needed at the moment, especially with no real constructor backing. Financing a drive is hard enough already.
Here's hoping Muller and Huff find their way back to the BTCC next season...
)Free-reign over budgets is definitely NOT what is needed at the moment, especially with no real constructor backing. Financing a drive is hard enough already.
Here's hoping Muller and Huff find their way back to the BTCC next season...
EDLT said:
The OP is a moron and clearly doesn't watch the BTCC.
Biggest live audiences since the 90's
Biggest grids since they dropped the multi-class races
Best TV coverage ever
But no, what we need to do is save it by bankrupting everyone involved
Yes - all correct. But the cars are dull dull dull.Virtually identical , sound ghastly , look awful, too much grip, too much braking and not enough power. If it's popular on TV so what- so's Jeremy Kyle- racing to me is almost entirely about live stuff. I would far prefer silhouette type formula a la DTM or the class system we had in 70s and 80s.Biggest live audiences since the 90's
Biggest grids since they dropped the multi-class races
Best TV coverage ever
But no, what we need to do is save it by bankrupting everyone involved
coppice said:
Yes - all correct. But the cars are dull dull dull.Virtually identical , sound ghastly , look awful, too much grip, too much braking and not enough power. If it's popular on TV so what- so's Jeremy Kyle- racing to me is almost entirely about live stuff. I would far prefer silhouette type formula a la DTM or the class system we had in 70s and 80s.
If it wasn't for it's TV popularity the BTCC would have disappeared forever a long time agoEDLT said:
The OP is a moron and clearly doesn't watch the BTCC.
Biggest live audiences since the 90's
Biggest grids since they dropped the multi-class races
Best TV coverage ever
But no, what we need to do is save it by bankrupting everyone involved
Agreed, the OP is talking sBiggest live audiences since the 90's
Biggest grids since they dropped the multi-class races
Best TV coverage ever
But no, what we need to do is save it by bankrupting everyone involved
t The BTCC needed saving 12 years ago when there was 3, 3 car teams.
I suspect he has his rose tinted glasses on and is looking for an internet ego boost by trying to get loads of people to agree with him
Manufacturers don't want to spend the money to compete, there is little or no benefit to them. I have no idea why Honda support the TD team, they don't even sell a "quick" civic that might appeal to BTCC fans.
Gow has done a good job getting the car count up and the relatively recent TV deal but its basically the top tier of club racing and as far as I can work out always was (bar the supertouring era).
WTCC is on its arse
DTM has been more of a sportscar/GT series than tintops for years
I don't think there is a market for a professional european/international tintop series. The closest you'll get is the aussie V8s, which is a two horse race and immensely expensive (IIRC £6-7m a year per team).
Gow has done a good job getting the car count up and the relatively recent TV deal but its basically the top tier of club racing and as far as I can work out always was (bar the supertouring era).
WTCC is on its arse
DTM has been more of a sportscar/GT series than tintops for years
I don't think there is a market for a professional european/international tintop series. The closest you'll get is the aussie V8s, which is a two horse race and immensely expensive (IIRC £6-7m a year per team).
DanDC5 said:
If it wasn't for it's TV popularity the BTCC would have disappeared forever a long time ago
Not sure I agree at all- there is plenty of racing which gets little or no TV but which is alive and well. Such as the historic scene - this weekends Silverstone Classic will get huge attendance, massive diversity in cars - including some old BTCC stuff. I may be snobby about it but to me BTCC is dumbed down spec formula targetteed at people with little knowledge of or enthusiasm for motor sport in its wider sense. Whitefly Swatter said:
munizcvw said:
Whitefly Swatter said:
I dont think the driving standards have changed much from the John Cleland era!
Yeah,also me. "An agressive 'never-say-die' racer who was often outspoken off the track, but exciting to watch on it. A great sportsman and ambasador for the sport of SuperTouring racing. " on http://www.supertouring.co.uk/drivers/john_cleland...
Vocal Minority said:
OK, the current series is OK. Produces quite entertaining races and quite big crowds - though not as big as they have been. However, the standard of driving has come into question of late, and I don't care what you say, more works teams would be better.
Now, everyone insists that the period of motorsport that they grew up with is the best, and as a child of the 90s, naturally, Super Tourers are king for me. Despite the obvious cost issues. I was watching a review of some mid 1990s BTCC - 'the best in the world' according to the participants, and between 1994-1997 there were works entries from:
Alfa Romeo
Renault
Audi
Ford
Vauxhall
BMW
Nissan
Volvo
Toyota
Peugeot
Honda
amongst others I cannot remember off the top of my head. Drivers included names like Rydell, Menu, Radisich and Ravaglia (now WTCC drivers or WOrld Cup winners at the time) and also Jo Winklehock and Frank Beila, who went on to win Le Mans. Former F1 drivers like Morbidelli, Mansell and Tarquini took part with varying degrees of success.
What is needed is better quality drivers, attracted by a larger pool of works entries, which will boost popularity and crowds, and hopefully be more entertaining.
I propose:
1). You can have any engine you like - with a block based on your road engine. If you make a more powerful motor, why should you not be allowed to benefit.
2). However, to provide some sort of equality, cars such as your Focus', Civic and MG6 can be lighter than the likes of your 3 series etc.
3). Things like traction control and stability control etc are permitted, but MUST be taken from the road car and not be bespoke. This will either benefit costs or ensure that the benefits are paid forward to road users.
I am sure that I am grotesquely wrong, or missing out many important factors. But debate will improve the breed.
So, Pistonheads, we have to save British Touring Cars!
well seeing as you dont car what i say whats the point?Now, everyone insists that the period of motorsport that they grew up with is the best, and as a child of the 90s, naturally, Super Tourers are king for me. Despite the obvious cost issues. I was watching a review of some mid 1990s BTCC - 'the best in the world' according to the participants, and between 1994-1997 there were works entries from:
Alfa Romeo
Renault
Audi
Ford
Vauxhall
BMW
Nissan
Volvo
Toyota
Peugeot
Honda
amongst others I cannot remember off the top of my head. Drivers included names like Rydell, Menu, Radisich and Ravaglia (now WTCC drivers or WOrld Cup winners at the time) and also Jo Winklehock and Frank Beila, who went on to win Le Mans. Former F1 drivers like Morbidelli, Mansell and Tarquini took part with varying degrees of success.
What is needed is better quality drivers, attracted by a larger pool of works entries, which will boost popularity and crowds, and hopefully be more entertaining.
I propose:
1). You can have any engine you like - with a block based on your road engine. If you make a more powerful motor, why should you not be allowed to benefit.
2). However, to provide some sort of equality, cars such as your Focus', Civic and MG6 can be lighter than the likes of your 3 series etc.
3). Things like traction control and stability control etc are permitted, but MUST be taken from the road car and not be bespoke. This will either benefit costs or ensure that the benefits are paid forward to road users.
I am sure that I am grotesquely wrong, or missing out many important factors. But debate will improve the breed.
So, Pistonheads, we have to save British Touring Cars!
driving standards ? yeh right try watch some old races, they are way better than they used to be !
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