I don't get it

[300bhp/ton]

This:


Weighing between 1175-1280kg

Usually seen as being porky, over weight and too heavy.


Yet this:



Weighing 1250-1275kg is seen as lightweight, svelt and nimble.



Something just doesn't add up.

[Captain Muppet]

The thing that doesn't add up is seats.

ETA: you don't see how a 2 seat car should weigh less than a 2+2?

[Riknos]

doogz said:

People compare the MK2 MR2 to the MK1 and MK3, and relative to them, it's a bit tubby.

One possible reason?

I was thinking this also, as compared to other MR2s it is heavy. Could it also be due to the decade it came out in? Early 90s through to 2000, 12xxkg was heavy for a car. These days, 14xxkg is the norm?

[SSBB]

Different era, different standards.

[Captain Muppet]

SSBB said:

Different era, different standards.

Also different layouts and massively different number of occupants.

The MR2 uses the transverse FWD powertrain from a Celica. No prop shaft, no seperate diff housing. No rear seats.

Plus I loved my mk2 MR2, and it certainly never felt heavy to drive.

[Robb F]

Well the 22 year age gap would be a place to start

[300bhp/ton]

Captain Muppet said:

The thing that doesn't add up is seats.

ETA: you don't see how a 2 seat car should weigh less than a 2+2?

The BRZ is hardly a luxury limo. It's a 2 seater with the ability to squeeze a couple of people in the back should you really need too. Either way the type of person to buy such a car is highly likely to be the type to consider a 2 seater car too.

[300bhp/ton]

Robb F said:

Well the 22 year age gap would be a place to start

Not really as I was referring to perceptions today.

[kambites]

300bhp/ton said:

The BRZ is hardly a luxury limo. It's a 2 seater with the ability to squeeze a couple of people in the back should you really need too. Either way the type of person to buy such a car is highly likely to be the type to consider a 2 seater car too.

Not convinced by that. I'd say the primary reason for the existence of the GT86 is that it has four seats. Surely most people would buy an MX5 if they didn't need the extra space.

I suspect those extra seats are worth at least 100kg.

Besides, I don't know that people usually say the MR2 is heavy; just that it feels it. Same with the weight of the GT86 - it's not especially light, it just apparently feels it (I suppose because of the height of the CoG).

[TheVole]

Big heavy safety structures, idea that new cars now shouldn't rust these days, leading to manufacturers using thicker, heavier panels (I know aluminium/CF offsets this somewhat), modern expectations of equipment that would have been different back in the times of that shape of MR2.

Possible reasons?

[Captain Muppet]

300bhp/ton said:

Captain Muppet said:

The thing that doesn't add up is seats.

ETA: you don't see how a 2 seat car should weigh less than a 2+2?

The BRZ is hardly a luxury limo. It's a 2 seater with the ability to squeeze a couple of people in the back should you really need too. Either way the type of person to buy such a car is highly likely to be the type to consider a 2 seater car too.

Yes, the market overlaps. But the engineering is wildly different.

[300bhp/ton]

Captain Muppet said:

Yes, the market overlaps. But the engineering is wildly different.

I agree fully.

Just thought it was funny, that most times an MR2 MK2 is posted someone will chime in and say they are heavy. Yet every review (and Toyota sales brochure) for the GT86/BRZ harps on about how light it is, almost as if its made from solid helium or something.

[300bhp/ton]

kambites said:

Surely most people would buy an MX5 if they didn't need the extra space.

Maybe. Although I wouldn't, I much prefer the coupe looks and that alone would be reason enough. More power would also be a bonus too.

[GroundEffect]

Compare the crash performance of a BRZ to a Mk2 MR2.

Also, it's relative to the competitors. The BRZ weighs the same as a Clio 200.

[kambites]

300bhp/ton said:

kambites said:

Surely most people would buy an MX5 if they didn't need the extra space.

Maybe. Although I wouldn't, I much prefer the coupe looks and that alone would be reason enough. More power would also be a bonus too.

Fair enough, but anyway that's the reason for the different in perception of the weight, at least in my mind. The rear seats are worth a lot, both because they mean the chassis needs to be designed around them and because seats themselves are actually quite heavy things.

[Captain Muppet]

Here we go:

GT86
Wheelbase 2,570 mm (101.2 in)
Length 4,240 mm (166.9 in)
Width 1,775 mm (69.9 in)
Height 1,285 mm (50.6 in)

mk2 MR2
Wheelbase 2,400 mm (94.5 in)
Length 4,171 mm (164.2 in)
Width 1,699 mm (66.9 in)
Height 1,234 mm (48.6 in)

MR2 is smaller in every dimension. Now make it bigger, fit a propshaft, seperate rear diff, rear seats, way more airbags, bigger wheels and use the same materials. It should weigh very much more, but it doesn't.

[66comanche]

Isn't the Mk2 MR2 heavier than the classic Impreza? In that context it's a heavy car compared to a full size 4dr saloon seating 5 of the same era.

[Fittster]

Drive the MR2 into a concrete block and tell us how its safety standard match up to a modern car.

[TameRacingDriver]

66comanche said:

Isn't the Mk2 MR2 heavier than the classic Impreza? In that context it's a heavy car compared to a full size 4dr saloon seating 5 of the same era.

That does put it into perspective a bit considering the Impreza was also 4WD and turbocharged.

[McSam]

300bhp/ton said:

Robb F said:

Well the 22 year age gap would be a place to start

Not really as I was referring to perceptions today.

Yes, it's absolutely relevant - the Mk2 MR2 was heavy for its time, layout and target market, and could well have been made lighter with a bit of thought.

The BRZ/FT86 is very light for its time, layout and target market and could well have ended up a lot heavier if they weren't careful.

You can't take a car out of context like that! Weight is the most era-relative thing in car design, even more so than power output. The new A3 with a diesel engine weighs about 1280kg, which I think is extremely impressive, even though it's exactly the same as a B5 A4. Arguing that this makes it less impressive, though, is daft and misunderstands a simply huge amount of things that modern car design must account for.