RE: Insurance Crackdown
Wednesday 11th August 2004
Insurance Crackdown
Stiffer penalties but how will uninsured drivers be caught?
A package of measures to crack down on hundreds of thousands of uninsured motorists was announced today by Road Safety Minister David Jamieson.
The Government's new approach will target the estimated one million motorists on our roads driving without insurance.
Figures show that uninsured drivers are:
- 10 times more likely to have been convicted of drink driving
- 6 times more likely to have been convicted of driving an unsafe vehicle
- 3 times more likely to have been convicted of driving without due care and attention.
Accidents involving these motorists cost over £200 million a year, adding up to £30 a year to motor premiums of each law abiding motorist.
The Department for Transport plans to:
- Give the police the power to seize and, in appropriate cases, destroy vehicles that are being driven uninsured,
- Link the DVLA's Vehicle Register and the Motor Insurance Databases, allowing police to know which vehicles on the road are uninsured,
Also amongst the proposals are a fixed penalties for people who ignore reminders that their insurance has expired.
Jamieson commmented, "We are also working closely with the insurance industry to improve detection of drivers who fail to insure their vehicles and to raise awareness of the need for motor insurance. The message to the small hard core of anti social motorists who drive without insurance is clear- uninsured driving is unacceptable."
Caroline Flint, Home Office Minister added:
"We are also working closely with the police to ensure that the hugely successful Automatic Number Plate Recognition system is used as effectively as possible to target those who flout the law and drive without insurance."
Expext more cloned cars then...
Discussion
"How will they be caught"?!!
It can't be beyond technology to use some of those nasty cameras to good effect for once can it?
Make a nice chance instead of using them to criminalise ordinary road users.
I hear the cameras might also find gainful employment policing safe distances between cars on congested motorways.
And of course, assuming they are caught, unless there really are consequences for offenders, it's doubtful to be worth the effort.
It can't be beyond technology to use some of those nasty cameras to good effect for once can it?
Make a nice chance instead of using them to criminalise ordinary road users.
I hear the cameras might also find gainful employment policing safe distances between cars on congested motorways.
And of course, assuming they are caught, unless there really are consequences for offenders, it's doubtful to be worth the effort.
What is wrong with the good old fashioned but effective police road block.
In Durban South Africa the police set up random roadblocks pull over ten cars, test all drivers for drink, check all paperwork, check engine numbers, etc. When this is done let those go and pull in the next ten. Along with the police is a Bus with a doc to take blood samples of suspected drunks, a magistrate and a cell for the bad boys and girls.
These road blocks are highly mobile and are often set up for just an hour and then moved on to another spot. This is highly efective as you never know where they will be next.
In Durban South Africa the police set up random roadblocks pull over ten cars, test all drivers for drink, check all paperwork, check engine numbers, etc. When this is done let those go and pull in the next ten. Along with the police is a Bus with a doc to take blood samples of suspected drunks, a magistrate and a cell for the bad boys and girls.
These road blocks are highly mobile and are often set up for just an hour and then moved on to another spot. This is highly efective as you never know where they will be next.
AndySA said:
What is wrong with the good old fashioned but effective police road block.
Not quite enough 'good old fashioned' police patrols in the UK. Speed is now the driving issue for the politicians, and with fewer coppers on the roads, truly bad driving - inattention, aggression, tailgating, poor vehicle mainenance, you name it - is going largely undetected.
That said, we can drive better than your crowd in Dubai blindfolded
the article said:
The Department for Transport plans to:
Link the DVLA's Vehicle Register and the Motor Insurance Databases, allowing police to know which vehicles on the road are uninsured,
Also amongst the proposals are a fixed penalties for people who ignore reminders that their insurance has expired.
Jamieson commmented, "We are also working closely with the insurance industry to improve detection of drivers who fail to insure their vehicles and to raise awareness of the need for motor insurance.
So this will have absolutely no affect on the hard-core of deliberate offenders who ensure that their details don't show up on any insurance or DVLA databases. Good job. Not.
Real policemen doing real police work is the only solution.
Rob_the_Sparky said:
Fines for ignoring insurance reminders - guilty until proven innocent? Sounds remarkably like SORN.
Rob
From previous threads I know that many people here, myself included, are already livid with lazy brokers/insurers who don't dish out renewal reminders.
So that's a whole other can of worms.
The article said:How does that work then? If I go on holiday for a month I might (perfectly legally) decide not to renew my insurance until I come back as I won't be driving the car in that time. I don't think that the car even needs to be off the road.
amongst the proposals are a fixed penalties for people who ignore reminders that their insurance has expired.
Caroline Flint said:So how does this deal with those long-term offenders (as opposed to those who drive uninsured for a week or so - because cashflow problems prevent renewal, for example). The long-term offenders won't be able to tax their car either and to make that work are probably not the registered keeper of the vehicle.
We are also working closely with the police to ensure that the hugely successful Automatic Number Plate Recognition system is used as effectively as possible to target those who flout the law and drive without insurance.
What about people who drive (without insurance) cars that they don't own. If the registered keeper is taxed and insured, no ANPR is going to help.
As usual, the greatest burden will fall on those normally law-abiding citizens who have simply forgotten to renew in time and never intended to break the law anyway.
I'm not saying that it's OK to forget or whatever, but the worst of the offenders are yet again untouched by an iniative launched by this poxy government.
I agree with the fact we just need more cops doing the usual stop and enquire stuff.
I've been ill recently and was at home, wahey, and got to watch Neighbours. They had a roadstop scene and police were just breathalising drivers along a back street. How hard is that to do here in the UK...
If they screech to a halt and then speed off, they are obviosuly dodgy and then you ask for documents
But police are undermanned, and I think low on morale. Probably stretched already, and the government just comes up with flawed ways to make computers do everything.
Did they ever stop and wonder that if people don't get on the somputer system (ie, the consistent offenders), then they can do as they please!?
Damn Tony Blair and that "short sighted" David Blunkett
Dave
I've been ill recently and was at home, wahey, and got to watch Neighbours. They had a roadstop scene and police were just breathalising drivers along a back street. How hard is that to do here in the UK...
If they screech to a halt and then speed off, they are obviosuly dodgy and then you ask for documents
But police are undermanned, and I think low on morale. Probably stretched already, and the government just comes up with flawed ways to make computers do everything.
Did they ever stop and wonder that if people don't get on the somputer system (ie, the consistent offenders), then they can do as they please!?
Damn Tony Blair and that "short sighted" David Blunkett
Dave
this is what should have happened years ago....
it's been in place for ages here, in germany.
when you goto the vlo to register the car, you need to give an insurance cover note in, and all your relevant details.. if that vehicle gets the insurance stopped, you get a letter from them, asking why. simply saying "i've sold it" won't suffice, as you also need to de-register the car once you have sold it.
the system works... because of co-operation between insurers and local authorities. hardly hear of uninsured drivers here.. because of the systemn in place. If they are caught, the penalties are hard.
just my two penneth
Jeff
it's been in place for ages here, in germany.
when you goto the vlo to register the car, you need to give an insurance cover note in, and all your relevant details.. if that vehicle gets the insurance stopped, you get a letter from them, asking why. simply saying "i've sold it" won't suffice, as you also need to de-register the car once you have sold it.
the system works... because of co-operation between insurers and local authorities. hardly hear of uninsured drivers here.. because of the systemn in place. If they are caught, the penalties are hard.
just my two penneth
Jeff
The initial answer to the problem would appear quite simple.
Why not make it compulsory for insurance companies to issue a “tax disc” like certificate in addition to the standard paper version. Then make it compulsory to display this on the windscreen.
This would not prevent accidents with uninsured drivers but it would make their vehicles immediately noticeable when checked by any officer, traffic warden or member of the public that sees it on the highway. Cover notes could be adapted so a temporary Disc is available at inception of policies. With modern technology it would not be impossible to spot a vehicle without a disc or with a disc that has expired thus catching many on route.
The measure would not prevent them using the vehicle but it makes them obvious. If people are that concerned about the situation, and they should be, it can but result in a number of vehicles being seized and or prevented from use until the owner has either satisfactorily resolved the issue or been dealt with appropriately for having an uninsured vehicle on a public highway without insurance or without complying with the regulation.
It would be a small cost to the insurance industry but a potential significant saving on their contribution to the ever-growing MIB pot to which each insurer has to contribute.
Why not make it compulsory for insurance companies to issue a “tax disc” like certificate in addition to the standard paper version. Then make it compulsory to display this on the windscreen.
This would not prevent accidents with uninsured drivers but it would make their vehicles immediately noticeable when checked by any officer, traffic warden or member of the public that sees it on the highway. Cover notes could be adapted so a temporary Disc is available at inception of policies. With modern technology it would not be impossible to spot a vehicle without a disc or with a disc that has expired thus catching many on route.
The measure would not prevent them using the vehicle but it makes them obvious. If people are that concerned about the situation, and they should be, it can but result in a number of vehicles being seized and or prevented from use until the owner has either satisfactorily resolved the issue or been dealt with appropriately for having an uninsured vehicle on a public highway without insurance or without complying with the regulation.
It would be a small cost to the insurance industry but a potential significant saving on their contribution to the ever-growing MIB pot to which each insurer has to contribute.
Hi all,
I am an Insurance broker, and we already have a sea of requirements to make sure the relevant databases are up to date (4th EU Motor Directive), to aid the Police and other government bodies to address the uninsured drivers out there.
But it is all bull! Just look in your local paper at the fines etc for driving uninsured etc! We regularly have people arrive at our offices uninsured laugh at the premium (and not all are young drivers at £1000+ premiums, a lot are just people who don't want to pay!) we quote and drive off uninsured. We also have a lot of people who take absolutley no notice of our renewal the subsequent renewal reminder and then the lapse letter, so don't just blame the insurance industry, for late renewals - maybe people should take responsibility for their own lives and not always look to someone else to take the heat!
What we need is the current laws to be enforced. A £50 fine just does not hack it, nor does the threat of crushing the cars, because we just know that the government has not go the balls!
Until recently we faxed all of our know lapses or cancelations where we knew beyond doubt that the policyholder was driving uninsured. That was until I met with one of the local policeman who said don't bother to do it as they just went in the bin as no one could act on them! (Something to do with DPA!)
The police already have the DVLA and the Insurance Motor database (that's why we must notify insurers of cover note reg mark within 14 days of inception), but they just don't do **** all with it.
Time to get real police doing a real job!
I listened to Mr Howard the other day and started to get excited as he reeled off the mantra of getting tough until I remembered he was a politician and it was just words.
I like the idea of emmigration myself...........
I am an Insurance broker, and we already have a sea of requirements to make sure the relevant databases are up to date (4th EU Motor Directive), to aid the Police and other government bodies to address the uninsured drivers out there.
But it is all bull! Just look in your local paper at the fines etc for driving uninsured etc! We regularly have people arrive at our offices uninsured laugh at the premium (and not all are young drivers at £1000+ premiums, a lot are just people who don't want to pay!) we quote and drive off uninsured. We also have a lot of people who take absolutley no notice of our renewal the subsequent renewal reminder and then the lapse letter, so don't just blame the insurance industry, for late renewals - maybe people should take responsibility for their own lives and not always look to someone else to take the heat!
What we need is the current laws to be enforced. A £50 fine just does not hack it, nor does the threat of crushing the cars, because we just know that the government has not go the balls!
Until recently we faxed all of our know lapses or cancelations where we knew beyond doubt that the policyholder was driving uninsured. That was until I met with one of the local policeman who said don't bother to do it as they just went in the bin as no one could act on them! (Something to do with DPA!)
The police already have the DVLA and the Insurance Motor database (that's why we must notify insurers of cover note reg mark within 14 days of inception), but they just don't do **** all with it.
Time to get real police doing a real job!
I listened to Mr Howard the other day and started to get excited as he reeled off the mantra of getting tough until I remembered he was a politician and it was just words.
I like the idea of emmigration myself...........
Digga said:
"How will they be caught"?!!
It can't be beyond technology to use some of those nasty cameras to good effect for once can it?
Make a nice chance instead of using them to criminalise ordinary road users.
I hear the cameras might also find gainful employment policing safe distances between cars on congested motorways.
And of course, assuming they are caught, unless there really are consequences for offenders, it's doubtful to be worth the effort.
Exactly they ara not catching them trhats why thge problem geting worse....
wolosp said:
I read in my local paper that a driver was caught by a police road block recently...he had been driving for over 50 years and never held a driving licence, neither did he have tax, MOT nor insurance. 
....apparently he was refused permission to drive home!
He must have saved a fortune!
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