Jaguar - Why so slow?

[veevee]

I really like Jags new cars, just when it was looking a bit shaky, they pulled a couple of crackers out of the bag.

But I can't help but notice how slow they seem to move - first it took ages to bring out a diesel XF, the XF estate has only just emerged, 5 years late; and where is the X-type replacement?

I know Jaguar is owned by Tata; but I'd still rather buy one on principle, than an Audi/BMW/Merc, and I suspect the same goes for many other people too.

Hopefully the F-Type will be out on time, why are they so so slow though?

P.S - bring out an XJ coupe, Far East markets will lap it up, and lots of people here will buy it over a CL, or even a Continental GT, if you get it right.

[dcb]

veevee said:

but I'd still rather buy one on principle, than an Audi/BMW/Merc, and I suspect the same goes for many other people too.

Sure ?

I checked and the most recent figures I could find that
Jaguar sold about 244,000 cars worldwide in 2011.

In the same time interval, BMW sold about 1.5 million cars,
Audi sold about 1.3 million and Mercedes Benz sold about 1.4 million
worldwide.

So it seems clear that each of those German companies
are outselling dear old Jaguar about 5 or 6 to 1.

But that's only the worldwide picture. Focussing
in on the UK, I checked UK 2011 sales from the SMMT and it's a
similar picture, Audi had 5.9% market share, BMW had 6.0%,
M-B 4.2% and dear old Jaguar 0.7%.

I guess Jaguar have quite some way to go to reach
the "dwindling band of enthusiasts" level of the likes
of Lotus on 0.02%, but it's still fair to say that
both in their home market of the UK and worldwide,
Jaguar don't sell anything like as well as their
German competitors.

[Japveesix]

dcb said:

veevee said:

but I'd still rather buy one on principle, than an Audi/BMW/Merc, and I suspect the same goes for many other people too.

Sure ?

I checked and the most recent figures I could find that
Jaguar sold about 244,000 cars worldwide in 2011.

In the same time interval, BMW sold about 1.5 million cars,
Audi sold about 1.3 million and Mercedes Benz sold about 1.4 million
worldwide.

So it seems clear that each of those German companies
are outselling dear old Jaguar about 5 or 6 to 1.

But that's only the worldwide picture. Focussing
in on the UK, I checked UK 2011 sales from the SMMT and it's a
similar picture, Audi had 5.9% market share, BMW had 6.0%,
M-B 4.2% and dear old Jaguar 0.7%.

I guess Jaguar have quite some way to go to reach
the "dwindling band of enthusiasts" level of the likes
of Lotus on 0.02%, but it's still fair to say that
both in their home market of the UK and worldwide,
Jaguar don't sell anything like as well as their
German competitors.

What a stupid pointless post completely missing what the OP was actually getting at.

[busta]

dcb said:

veevee said:

but I'd still rather buy one on principle, than an Audi/BMW/Merc, and I suspect the same goes for many other people too.

Sure ?

I checked and the most recent figures I could find that
Jaguar sold about 244,000 cars worldwide in 2011.

In the same time interval, BMW sold about 1.5 million cars,
Audi sold about 1.3 million and Mercedes Benz sold about 1.4 million
worldwide.

So it seems clear that each of those German companies
are outselling dear old Jaguar about 5 or 6 to 1.

But that's only the worldwide picture. Focussing
in on the UK, I checked UK 2011 sales from the SMMT and it's a
similar picture, Audi had 5.9% market share, BMW had 6.0%,
M-B 4.2% and dear old Jaguar 0.7%.

I guess Jaguar have quite some way to go to reach
the "dwindling band of enthusiasts" level of the likes
of Lotus on 0.02%, but it's still fair to say that
both in their home market of the UK and worldwide,
Jaguar don't sell anything like as well as their
German competitors.

He said many other people. 244,000 is many other people.

[groomi]

dcb said:

veevee said:

but I'd still rather buy one on principle, than an Audi/BMW/Merc, and I suspect the same goes for many other people too.

Sure ?

I checked and the most recent figures I could find that
Jaguar sold about 244,000 cars worldwide in 2011.

In the same time interval, BMW sold about 1.5 million cars,
Audi sold about 1.3 million and Mercedes Benz sold about 1.4 million
worldwide.

So it seems clear that each of those German companies
are outselling dear old Jaguar about 5 or 6 to 1.

But that's only the worldwide picture. Focussing
in on the UK, I checked UK 2011 sales from the SMMT and it's a
similar picture, Audi had 5.9% market share, BMW had 6.0%,
M-B 4.2% and dear old Jaguar 0.7%.

I guess Jaguar have quite some way to go to reach
the "dwindling band of enthusiasts" level of the likes
of Lotus on 0.02%, but it's still fair to say that
both in their home market of the UK and worldwide,
Jaguar don't sell anything like as well as their
German competitors.

Figures skewed by Jaguar making three models whereas each of the others make what, ten or so?

[Biscuit Bus]

Now JLR exists as a single company, developments are split between the 2 brands. Despite all the recruitment, there still isn't the capability to lauch several cars simultaneously. Land Rover makes the lion's share of the money so will take priority but there are some exciting vehicles on the way from Jaguar......

[toppstuff]

dcb said:

veevee said:

but I'd still rather buy one on principle, than an Audi/BMW/Merc, and I suspect the same goes for many other people too.

Sure ?

I checked and the most recent figures I could find that
Jaguar sold about 244,000 cars worldwide in 2011.

In the same time interval, BMW sold about 1.5 million cars,
Audi sold about 1.3 million and Mercedes Benz sold about 1.4 million
worldwide.

So it seems clear that each of those German companies
are outselling dear old Jaguar about 5 or 6 to 1.

But that's only the worldwide picture. Focussing
in on the UK, I checked UK 2011 sales from the SMMT and it's a
similar picture, Audi had 5.9% market share, BMW had 6.0%,
M-B 4.2% and dear old Jaguar 0.7%.

I guess Jaguar have quite some way to go to reach
the "dwindling band of enthusiasts" level of the likes
of Lotus on 0.02%, but it's still fair to say that
both in their home market of the UK and worldwide,
Jaguar don't sell anything like as well as their
German competitors.

Not sure that's really fair.

Jaguar have lacked the capital to offer the wide range of small, medium, large, sports, SUV etc that all the German makers enjoy. Jaguar have had a limited 2-3 car range.

That's going to change. TATA have not owned them for long, but they are already making a difference. Sales are up 27% and profits up 34% last year. Give them time, they are going to really compete with the Germans IMO.

[craigjm]

veevee said:

But I can't help but notice how slow they seem to move - first it took ages to bring out a diesel XF, the XF estate has only just emerged, 5 years late; and where is the X-type replacement?

Ages to bring out a diesel XF? it was available at launch in 2008. The estate took some time yes but they delivered the XJ in that time which is arguably a more necessary car. Why should they make an X-type replacement? the compact exec market is crowded and profit margins low.

[JonnyVTEC]

dcb said:

Sure ?

I checked and the most recent figures I could find that
Jaguar sold about 244,000 cars worldwide in 2011.

In the same time interval, BMW sold about 1.5 million cars,
Audi sold about 1.3 million and Mercedes Benz sold about 1.4 million
worldwide.

So it seems clear that each of those German companies
are outselling dear old Jaguar about 5 or 6 to 1.

But that's only the worldwide picture. Focussing
in on the UK, I checked UK 2011 sales from the SMMT and it's a
similar picture, Audi had 5.9% market share, BMW had 6.0%,
M-B 4.2% and dear old Jaguar 0.7%.

Your number for Jaguar is over 4 times optimistic!

[Caulkhead]

Japveesix said:

dcb said:

veevee said:

but I'd still rather buy one on principle, than an Audi/BMW/Merc, and I suspect the same goes for many other people too.

Sure ?

I checked and the most recent figures I could find that
Jaguar sold about 244,000 cars worldwide in 2011.

In the same time interval, BMW sold about 1.5 million cars,
Audi sold about 1.3 million and Mercedes Benz sold about 1.4 million
worldwide.

So it seems clear that each of those German companies
are outselling dear old Jaguar about 5 or 6 to 1.

But that's only the worldwide picture. Focussing
in on the UK, I checked UK 2011 sales from the SMMT and it's a
similar picture, Audi had 5.9% market share, BMW had 6.0%,
M-B 4.2% and dear old Jaguar 0.7%.

I guess Jaguar have quite some way to go to reach
the "dwindling band of enthusiasts" level of the likes
of Lotus on 0.02%, but it's still fair to say that
both in their home market of the UK and worldwide,
Jaguar don't sell anything like as well as their
German competitors.

What a stupid pointless post completely missing what the OP was actually getting at.

And completely ignoring the fact that Jaguar only make large executive saloons and sports coupes whereas BMW and Mercedes make all sorts including superminis. If you want to compare Jaguar sales to Merc and BMW with any meaning, compare Jaguar sales with just the sales of BMW 5, 6 and 7 series and Merc E-class, CLS, S-class and SL-class and it might mean something.

[Frances The Mute]

Biscuit Bus said:

Now JLR exists as a single company, developments are split between the 2 brands. Despite all the recruitment, there still isn't the capability to lauch several cars simultaneously. Land Rover makes the lion's share of the money so will take priority but there are some exciting vehicles on the way from Jaguar......

Exactly this.

In addition, JLR's expansion in emerging markets is huge. They have to exploit that so new cars take a longer time to come to fruition.

[Pappa Lurve]

I was in a jag dealer today. Small range of cars but each one is extremely well thought out and each is a terrific car. The dealer was excellent, helpful, very knowledgeable about his own cars and competitor vehicles and yet never said a negative word about other companies. He was also showing me some of the new models they are working on which will increase the segments their cars are targeted to but they are never going to make a Golf, an MPV, a Fiat 500 etc so as someone else said, to compare them with a company such as Audi which makes everything from small cheap cars through to the R8, S8 and Q7 for example is not comparing like for like. If you then expand it across the whole VW stable of brands they hit literally every possible market section, even covering part of the motorbike markets. Jag makes a certain type of car, they make it very, very well and in my experience, their dealers are some of the best out there. Ford and now Tata appear to have handled JLR very well and allowed the company to make cars for markets they understand, to even expand the appeal without diluting the brands and produce vehicles that are easily as good as the others in their segments. Good on them I say!

[mercfunder]

dcb said:

Sure ?


I guess Jaguar have quite some way to go to reach
the "dwindling band of enthusiasts" level of the likes
of Lotus on 0.02%, but it's still fair to say that
both in their home market of the UK and worldwide,
Jaguar don't sell anything like as well as their
German competitors.

Ain't that the whole point of buying a Jag, apart from getting a cracking car every other car on the road isn't the same as the one you are driving.

1100 new jobs announced this morning would tend to point in the direction that they are doing something right.

Edited by mercfunder on Wednesday 25th July 07:30

[V88Dicky]

To live the British Dream, you simply must drive a German diesel, preferably in stormgreygunmetaldrizzletarmac metallic.

It's the law.

[DonkeyApple]

craigjm said:

Ages to bring out a diesel XF? it was available at launch in 2008. The estate took some time yes but they delivered the XJ in that time which is arguably a more necessary car. Why should they make an X-type replacement? the compact exec market is crowded and profit margins low.

Exactly. No point targeting that sector.

Only product really missing from the JLR range is an upmarket rival to the Mini.

[philmots]

I for one would love an XFR.. In British racing green. Would have over F10 M5, Bi Turbo E63 etc. so what if it's not quite as quick.

[paranoid airbag]

It takes a long time to design cars, and Jaguar were severely neglected under Ford. There's going to be a gap.

That said, I'd've thought they'd've had a 3-series rival out by now... I really hope Jaguar are just taking their time in order to do the job properly, imagine what they could come up with

[Vocal Minority]

DonkeyApple said:

Only product really missing from the JLR range is an upmarket rival to the Mini.

It's a tricky one. I would suggest that BMW kept Mini as it meant that even though everyone knows MINI is a BMW brand, it's not a BMW, and as such keeps them as an executive brand. I expect Jaguar's marketing men will think the same.

American's do buy SUVs as someone above says, but Jaguar makes SUV's. They are called Land Rovers. JLR are one company, with two brands. Not two comapnies in a larger group (as I understand it anyway, I could be wrong). To spend money making a bespoke Jag SUV would be to take sales off Landrover as well, and the expense would probably be to high to justify what would maybe be 30% JLR effectively moving money around in its pockets.

[CDP]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Why not leave the SUVs to Landrover and not dilute Jaguar's sporting image? They are the same company so it doesn't matter if the Jaguar slice is smaller Landrover. It will never happen but I would like to see some smaller (Rover?) cars move into the Golf segment from the group, sharing components with the Evoke/Freelander to increase the group's buying power without damaging the Jaguar or Landrover brands.

[Vocal Minority]

Yes but JLR have a much smaller amount of money to play with than VAG, and cannot muster the investment to tread of their other brands toes.

Beside. Porsche joined the VAG family long after the Cayenne came along.