500bhp 1.6 litre production engine
Discussion
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/jaguar-...
Reminds me of the XJ220 in a way. What do we reckon, will it happen? That's a massively greater specific output than anything on the market today.
Reminds me of the XJ220 in a way. What do we reckon, will it happen? That's a massively greater specific output than anything on the market today.
I don't think it's unreasonable to assume 500bhp from just the IC engine.
Some of the 4-pot 1.5l FI engines in formula one were knocking on the door of 1500bhp in Qualy trim about 25-30 years ago.
A compound-charged 1.6l using modern technology developing a third of that power in a high-end supercar doesn't take a massive leap of faith.
Doubt it means we'll regularly be seeing that engine in your average focus though.
Some of the 4-pot 1.5l FI engines in formula one were knocking on the door of 1500bhp in Qualy trim about 25-30 years ago.
A compound-charged 1.6l using modern technology developing a third of that power in a high-end supercar doesn't take a massive leap of faith.
Doubt it means we'll regularly be seeing that engine in your average focus though.
A hint of history repeating itself but the engine actually sounds pretty good. Amazing.
http://soundcloud.com/autocar-uk/c-x75
http://soundcloud.com/autocar-uk/c-x75
Just been reading about this and the Porsche 918 spyder in Evo magazine (issue 172)
Apparently the project is being worked on with their official partner, Williams F1 - It says that the engine, a 4 cylinder, 1.6 litre, twin turbo unit developed by Cosworth, was originally being developed to go into the F1 car when the new regulations come in, until the rules were changed to allow a V6. The article goes on to say that the engine has 'been tuned to give a reliable 313bhp/litre' and has CO2 emissions 'below 98g/km'
So at 313 bhp/litre, It'll be 500 Bhp from a 1.6
Apparently the project is being worked on with their official partner, Williams F1 - It says that the engine, a 4 cylinder, 1.6 litre, twin turbo unit developed by Cosworth, was originally being developed to go into the F1 car when the new regulations come in, until the rules were changed to allow a V6. The article goes on to say that the engine has 'been tuned to give a reliable 313bhp/litre' and has CO2 emissions 'below 98g/km'
So at 313 bhp/litre, It'll be 500 Bhp from a 1.6
Sorry but the heat management would be a nightmare to get 500hp out of 1.6 litres.
The piston expansion and ring sealing tolerances required would leave you with an engine that would piston slap like hell from cold and I wouldnt like to be the one warranting that for somewhere around 60k miles.
250/250 split sounds far more probable.
The piston expansion and ring sealing tolerances required would leave you with an engine that would piston slap like hell from cold and I wouldnt like to be the one warranting that for somewhere around 60k miles.
250/250 split sounds far more probable.
On 95 octane petrol, with metal valve springs and mapped to run reliably in all sorts of heat, cold, dust etc I'd say 500bhp from the 1.6 litre petrol engine on its own will be a very hard task to achieve even with a supercharger and a turbo.
For comparison Bugatti needed 8 litres and four turbos to make a little more than twice that power reliably.
Comparisons with F1 engines are facile, even 25 year-old F1 engines. They had very high octane fuel, they gave up on conventional valve springs to rev as high as they needed and they blew up after a few miles.
For comparison Bugatti needed 8 litres and four turbos to make a little more than twice that power reliably.
Comparisons with F1 engines are facile, even 25 year-old F1 engines. They had very high octane fuel, they gave up on conventional valve springs to rev as high as they needed and they blew up after a few miles.
Superhoop said:
Just been reading about this and the Porsche 918 spyder in Evo magazine (issue 172)
Apparently the project is being worked on with their official partner, Williams F1 - It says that the engine, a 4 cylinder, 1.6 litre, twin turbo unit developed by Cosworth, was originally being developed to go into the F1 car when the new regulations come in, until the rules were changed to allow a V6. The article goes on to say that the engine has 'been tuned to give a reliable 313bhp/litre' and has CO2 emissions 'below 98g/km'
So at 313 bhp/litre, It'll be 500 Bhp from a 1.6
Fully expecting to see a version of that engine hammering around Le Mans in less than 2 years Apparently the project is being worked on with their official partner, Williams F1 - It says that the engine, a 4 cylinder, 1.6 litre, twin turbo unit developed by Cosworth, was originally being developed to go into the F1 car when the new regulations come in, until the rules were changed to allow a V6. The article goes on to say that the engine has 'been tuned to give a reliable 313bhp/litre' and has CO2 emissions 'below 98g/km'
So at 313 bhp/litre, It'll be 500 Bhp from a 1.6
emicen said:
Sorry but the heat management would be a nightmare to get 500hp out of 1.6 litres.
Autocar said:
...and that it will benefit from active aerodynamics. In particular, this will benefit the car's cooling; it currently sports 11 radiators to cope with the huge heat generated.
Like that, you mean?emicen said:
The piston expansion and ring sealing tolerances required would leave you with an engine that would piston slap like hell from cold and I wouldnt like to be the one warranting that for somewhere around 60k miles.
Hypereutectic pistons?rohrl said:
Comparisons with F1 engines are facile, even 25 year-old F1 engines. They had very high octane fuel, they gave up on conventional valve springs to rev as high as they needed and they blew up after a few miles.
How about with 25 year old Group B engines? I don't know what fuel they used, but a quick scan of Wikipedia suggests the 1.8 single turbo RS200 had 444bhp, and the 1.8 twincharged Delta S4 gave 480 (both inline 4s).And just read the rest of the sentence on the S4:
"...but the one that participated in the 1986 World Rally Championship developed over 560 horsepower (417 kW). In 1985, Lancia engineers tested a S4 engine under extreme conditions, reaching 5 bars boost, developing around 1000 horsepower."
Could 25 years in between make the difference in reliability, for a £900K car?
xRIEx said:
emicen said:
Sorry but the heat management would be a nightmare to get 500hp out of 1.6 litres.
Autocar said:
...and that it will benefit from active aerodynamics. In particular, this will benefit the car's cooling; it currently sports 11 radiators to cope with the huge heat generated.
Like that, you mean?xRIEx said:
emicen said:
The piston expansion and ring sealing tolerances required would leave you with an engine that would piston slap like hell from cold and I wouldnt like to be the one warranting that for somewhere around 60k miles.
Hypereutectic pistons?
emicen said:
No, nothing like that. In cylinder temps specifically piston and bore expansion and clearances as per my original reply. Add all the radiators in the world, they wont solve that and no amount of oil squirters will either.
Hypereutectic pistons although light and having good expansion properties are very fragile when it comes to detonation, second gen 3SGTE engine a very good example. At the boost levels required for >300hp per ton and running on pump fuel, I wouldnt fancy their chances.
Cool, cheers Hypereutectic pistons although light and having good expansion properties are very fragile when it comes to detonation, second gen 3SGTE engine a very good example. At the boost levels required for >300hp per ton and running on pump fuel, I wouldnt fancy their chances.
xRIEx said:
rohrl said:
Comparisons with F1 engines are facile, even 25 year-old F1 engines. They had very high octane fuel, they gave up on conventional valve springs to rev as high as they needed and they blew up after a few miles.
How about with 25 year old Group B engines? I don't know what fuel they used, but a quick scan of Wikipedia suggests the 1.8 single turbo RS200 had 444bhp, and the 1.8 twincharged Delta S4 gave 480 (both inline 4s).And just read the rest of the sentence on the S4:
"...but the one that participated in the 1986 World Rally Championship developed over 560 horsepower (417 kW). In 1985, Lancia engineers tested a S4 engine under extreme conditions, reaching 5 bars boost, developing around 1000 horsepower."
Could 25 years in between make the difference in reliability, for a £900K car?
I think it would be possible. APR tune the TT RS to 600bhp and it's still a pretty much standard looking car, no big changes to the body for cooling etc. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNklpt8CVW4&sns...
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff