Horses and speed limits

[Carthage]

Press release from the British Horse Society at https://www.bhs.org.uk/Press_Centre/BHS_News/40mph...

Are lower speed limits the answer?

As some of Britain’s most vulnerable road users, horse riders and carriage drivers are being urged to give their views on whether lowering speed limits will make our roads safer.

Every year, hundreds of horses and riders are involved in accidents on our roads. In 2011, 225 incidents involving horses on the road were reported through the dedicated accident recording website, www.horseaccidents.org.uk. This included 18 severe rider injuries and eight rider fatalities.

The British Horse Society, the charity that funds the website on behalf of all equestrians, fears that this figure is just the tip of the iceberg, and that many more incidents go unreported. It is a sad fact that a horse can be killed, or a vehicle written off and the accident may not be recorded anywhere.

Consequently, the charity has welcomed the Government’s consultation on guidance to traffic authorities for setting local speed limits. Lowering limits on roads which form part of a recognised route for vulnerable road users could be invaluable to improving road safety.

However, the BHS agrees with Government that speed limit changes are unlikely to fully address the problem of accidents on rural roads and that a wider range of measures will be needed to be implemented.

In addition, speed limits are not a target and factors such as the time of day and weather conditions will affect what is an appropriate speed to travel on a particular stretch of road.
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I've spent years riding horses on the roads, and also driving, so I can see it from both 'sides' although surely as road users we all share the same aim - to get where we are going alive and unharmed.

So, your thoughts?

[Xerstead]

My problem with the reduction in limits comes when there is a long, well sighted stretch of road with a couple of bendy bits at each end. Because of the bends the whole lot will be reduced to a 30mph limit.
Any good driver would slow for the bends and speed up for the straight, but guess where they'll put the cameras...
Unfortunatly there are too many idiots out there.

[10 Pence Short]

That a single interest group related to horse riding on the roads likes the idea of a lower speed limit for vehicles is not much of a story, to be honest. I can't see anything surprising or controversial in what they've said.

[blugnu]

Well of course lowering the speed limit and enforcing it would reduce accidents. If we were all only allowed to do 20mph everywhere, accidents would fall drastically.

Whether or not the price is worth paying is an entirely different matter.

I'd be annoyed if speed limits were reduced on the off-chance someone was indulging their dangerous hobby on the road, whether it be horse riding, cycling, skateboarding or whatever.

Horses are brilliant off-road I understand, whereas on-road cars are much better. It's almost as though horses have evolved to be good off-road and cars are designed to be good on roads, isn't it?

[Carthage]

blugnu said:

.

Horses are brilliant off-road I understand, whereas on-road cars are much better. It's almost as though horses have evolved to be good off-road and cars are designed to be good on roads, isn't it?

Horses do have good four-hoof drive.
The trouble though, is that you often have to go on roads to get to the bridleways/off road places where we'd all much rather ride.

Also, sometimes we have to do 'roadwork' on them for fitness/injury reasons - you need a certain level of concussion on the legs to increase bone density for galloping cross country or whatever later. And if your horse has injured a tendon or ligament, you need to do road work for rehabilitation to avoid straining it on off road unlevel ground.

In my experience, tractor drivers, lorry drivers, bikers, sports car drivers and young men are all lovely to horse riders, and help us to stay safe.
The ones who seem to want to kill us are the middle aged businessmen in German cars (often with a suit hung in the back) who speed past too close, and the mums on the school run who tailgate () and overtake us when there's no space.

[ohtari]

I come from a horsey family. Whilst I don't ride myself, my mother and sister are bonkers for it, riding every day almost without fail. But I still get nervous at them taking the horses on a "hack". We live on a twisty, tight NSL road, and weekly there are near misses with oncoming traffic (2 in the last week for me alone). Now if I get in a tangle, I've got 5 feet of steel, airbags and seatbelts to protect me from oncoming car, but all they've got are some foam "hats". Even our most docile pony will panic and "rear" at the sight of something unfamiliar, possibly even taking off. Rider helpless.

Unfortunately, a change in speed limit is going to make absolutely no difference where horses are involved, as most passes occur at 10-15mph anyway. At 40 you would be in the upper thresholds of grip due to the poor surface anyway.

You can't keep the horses off the road, there'd be civil war. But what could be implemented is legislation about horses on the road.
Firstly, no small children riding their ponies. In most cases, they're barely in control of their animals in sand arenas, never mind when an Artic goes bombing past.
None of this walking one horse on a rope whilst another is ridden. It's utter madness. I've seem numerous horses galloping past. No owner to be seen, lead rope swinging with a petrified look in their eyes. Because a blackbird decided to fly from a hedge, or there was a crisp packet, or someone started an engine. Or, or, or... If the horse isn't sound enough to be ridden on the road. Keep it off the road. End of.
The riders should be forced to wear high viz of some sort, be it a vest or hat band, or tail bandage and nose band for the horse. Bikes nowadays have their lights on all the time to increase the chances of being seen, why not horses (reflectors, not lights obviously.
And lastly, every rider on the road NEEDS to have third party insurance. I know that a lot of the riding clubs do provide it, but too many don't (Neither in my family have any of the sort ). Just because Horsey seems sound (and the riders are adamant of this) does not mean that it won't/can't lash out at cars/pedestrians/cyclists/etc. A kick from a horse can kill, and do significant damage to anything it hits (metal shoes of course). It's not as if the riders cannot afford insurance, the dammed things cost a fortune just in the basics. For example 55 quid every 8 weeks for shoes, bales are 2-3 quid each (which they lots of), they they need stabled, and just forget the vets bills. They'd bankrupt most! My point is that they wouldn't even miss the £100 or whatnot for insurance.

So, no. Changing the speed limit would achieve nothing.

[4rephill]

blugnu said:

Well of course lowering the speed limit and enforcing it would reduce accidents. If we were all only allowed to do 20mph everywhere, accidents would fall drastically.

You've failed to take into account a rise in accidents due to people falling asleep at the wheel due to boredom!

[blugnu]

4rephill said:

You've failed to take into account a rise in accidents due to people falling asleep at the wheel due to boredom!

I did take them into account - they'd be more than offset by the people taking the train instead

[Agrispeed]

If a person is riding on a road where you can comfortably drive at 60MPH, they should really choose a better route.

I would say most people who ride horses, at least round here, do it on tight country lanes (less than two lanes), where it is quiet. sure, its a 60MPH road, but you wont be able to do over 20 on it. I would guess that the majority of accidents involving horses either involve blind bends (so speed is less of a factor) or the horses being spooked, due to either or a mix of both a nervy horse, and a inconsiderate or badly educated motorist (or rider!)

in Cornwall, the only people you see who pass too close, too fast or too loudly are all either from more urban areas, or school run mums (who are dangerous wherever) the majority of people who have grown up with them and know what to do have no problem what so ever. so I would say the lowering of speed limits will have no effect, but what is needed is education.

Lowering speed limits is pointless, as for the most part those who crash in NSLs in the countryside are those who dont know the road and go too fast, which they will still do under a speed limit, unless they make roads around here anything from a 60 to a 20 within 2 miles! people should just learn how to drive responsibly and we wouldn't have this problem, the same goes for some of the horse accidents - people just don't seem to drive to the limits or what is needed, only what they are told to do.

[otolith]

10 Pence Short said:

That a single interest group related to horse riding on the roads likes the idea of a lower speed limit for vehicles is not much of a story, to be honest.

Very true, although you seldom see motoring organisations asking for the freedoms of other road users to be restricted in the interests of motorists - that kind of self-interest just isn't seen as acceptable when the boot is on that foot.

[10 Pence Short]

otolith said:

Very true, although you seldom see motoring organisations asking for the freedoms of other road users to be restricted in the interests of motorists - that kind of self-interest just isn't seen as acceptable when the boot is on that foot.

You do get an awful lot of posters on Pistonheads suggesting horse riders should not be on the road at all. I'm not convinced motoring organisations don't exhibit self interest positions against non-motorists because it would be seen as an unacceptable position. I would say it's more likely because they don't have cause to. Why should motoring groups feel threatened by cyclists, horse riders or pedestrians?

[Carthage]

I'd agree regarding the speed limit.
People just drive faster than they can see to stop.
Or don't realise that a horse can jump in front of your car before you can move your foot to the brake.

[mph1977]

otolith said:

10 Pence Short said:

That a single interest group related to horse riding on the roads likes the idea of a lower speed limit for vehicles is not much of a story, to be honest.

Very true, although you seldom see motoring organisations asking for the freedoms of other road users to be restricted in the interests of motorists - that kind of self-interest just isn't seen as acceptable when the boot is on that foot.

that might of course be to do with the fact that pedestrians riders and herders have an unequivocal right to use none motorway roads where motor vehicles do so only with the permission of the law ...

[nickwilcock]

"In my experience, tractor drivers, lorry drivers, bikers, sports car drivers and young men are all lovely to horse riders, and help us to stay safe."

Yes, there's nothing nicer than a smile and wave of thanks from a pretty young horse-ist as you sloooowly overtake, having given her (and Dobbin) a wide berth. Whether or not the reduction in speed has anything to do with her pert young jodhpur-clad bum and/or tight tee-shirt, I couldn't say.....

ALWAYS slow down for horses. It won't make any difference to your drive time, but the mutual safety benefits and feelgood factor are obvious.

[otolith]

mph1977 said:

that might of course be to do with the fact that pedestrians riders and herders have an unequivocal right to use none motorway roads where motor vehicles do so only with the permission of the law ...

No, I should think that it's mostly because motoring organisations are largely mumblingly apologetic - motoring simply isn't PC.

I don't think, by the way, that they should try to elbow other road users out of the way, I just find the difference in attitude interesting.

[otolith]

10 Pence Short said:

You do get an awful lot of posters on Pistonheads suggesting horse riders should not be on the road at all. I'm not convinced motoring organisations don't exhibit self interest positions against non-motorists because it would be seen as an unacceptable position. I would say it's more likely because they don't have cause to. Why should motoring groups feel threatened by cyclists, horse riders or pedestrians?

Same reason those other groups wish to restrict the freedom of drivers - because they find sharing a public resource with them inconvenient, and the activities of a small minority of them are often a nuisance and sometimes dangerous?

[Agrispeed]

Yes, as someone said, being careful and courteous to riders is actually much safer for everyone. My grandfathers car was sat on when a bomb went off in London, by a police horse of all things. the horse survived... the car did not


(OT, but in the insurance documents the horse was called police vehicle xxxxx (horses number) namely; A horse. apparently, its quite difficult to describe the damage to the other vehicle when it has legs)

[gowmonster]

i live in a town and do mainly town/motorway driving, my stepdaughter however does riding, and i have to drive up country roads (with 60 limits) and tbh, 60 probably is too fast, so i use common sense and slow down.

country needs more common sense, and possibly signs on every road out of a town reminding people of cyclists/horses/tractors etc. i too see many near misses and drivers just not giving enough room.

[Quietlybonkers]

I refuse to ride my horse on roads, its TFD, thanks to idiots who don't slow down and the general volume of traffic. The two don't mix, so i put the horse in a trailer and take him to the forest to ride off road......and hold up the lorries doing 56 in a (for them) 40 limit all the way there.

[GC8]

My father drove carriages for years - speed limits arent the issue, its the idiots who arent able to share the road with horse riders and drivers who are.